Archdiocese of Detroit asks Michael Voris to stop using the name ‘Catholic’

Archdiocese of Detroit asks Michael Voris to stop using the name ‘Catholic’ Catholic pro-abortion politicians, Catholic hospitals that perform clandestine abortions and sterilizations; Catholic …More
Archdiocese of Detroit asks Michael Voris to stop using the name ‘Catholic’
Catholic pro-abortion politicians, Catholic hospitals that perform clandestine abortions and sterilizations; Catholic universities that constantly violate the faith in many ways, Catholic newspapers and magazines that have been challenging Church teachings and authority for years, all come to mind.
Now, today, news broke that the Archdiocese of Detroit has called on someone to stop using the name ‘Catholic’ - but it’s not someone who is fighting against the morals or faith of the Catholic Church at all.
It is in fact an individual who has devoted the last several years to vigorously defending and promoting authentic Catholic principles – Michael Voris, known best for his hosting of The Vortex on the website RealCatholicTV.com.
In a press release issued December 15 and signed by Communications officer Joe Kohn, the Archdiocese of Detroit states: “The Archdiocese has informed Mr. Voris and Real Catholic TV, …More
Lionel Andrades
Michael Voris affirms rigorous interpetation of dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus :says there is no "anonymous Catholic"
eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/…/michael-voris-a…
Tuesday, March 6, 2012
Michael Voris affirms rigorist interpretation of dogma outside the church no salvation: says there is no “anonymous Catholic”
When Michael Voris on Real Catholic TV refers to outside the church there is …More
Michael Voris affirms rigorous interpetation of dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus :says there is no "anonymous Catholic"

eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/…/michael-voris-a…

Tuesday, March 6, 2012

Michael Voris affirms rigorist interpretation of dogma outside the church no salvation: says there is no “anonymous Catholic”

When Michael Voris on Real Catholic TV refers to outside the church there is no salvation he means, outside the church no salvation as interpreted by the Church Councils, the popes, the saints and Fr.Leonard Feeney. Since the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance or a good conscience are explicit only in Heaven

The Letter of the Holy Office 1949 endorsed the rigorist interpretation of the dogma when it directly referred to the ‘the dogma’, the ‘infallible’ statement. (1)

Michael Voris also on Real Catholic TV.com proclaims the dogma outside the church there is no salvation (2) and says on another video that there is no anonymous Catholic.

There is no anonymous Christian no known case of a Catholic saved ‘anonymously’. If there was an anonymous Catholic in the present times it would be known only to God. So it could not be an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus which he endorses in its rigorist interpretation. There can only be the rigorist interpretation! We can never know cases of non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire, with a good conscience or the seeds of the Word, with elements of sanctification or in imperfect communion.

All the Catechisms of the Catholic Church including the present one (3) have affirmed the rigorist interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus as did the Vatican Councils (4).

We accept the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance as possibilities. We accept in principle that a non Catholic can be saved with the baptism of desire or invincible ignorance. De facto (explicitly, in reality) we do not know any such case.

Fr. Karl Rahner S.J’s theory of the ‘anonymous Christian’ is irrelevant to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Since we do not know any single case of a person saved as an anonymous Christian it does not contradict Vatican Council II which affirms the rigorist interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus. It states all need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation (to avoid Hell) ( Ad Gentes 7,Lumen Gentium 14).

No pope or Councils has stated that the baptism of desire etc is an exception to the dogma or that we know explicit cases. So Michael Voris on Real Catholic TV is affirming the teaching of the Magisterium before and after Vatican Council II.
-Lionel Andrades

1.

IF THE LETTER OF THE HOLY OFFICE 1949 CONSIDERED THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE AS A DEFACTO EXCEPTION TO THE DOGMA IT WOULD BE AN OBJECTIVE ERROR: WE DON’T KNOW ANY SUCH CASE
eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/…/if-letter-of-ho…

2.
youtu.be/gaCbMcn46Wc , youtu.be/vp8zQhQE1iM youtu.be/gaCbMcn46Wc
youtu.be/GCf8C1Xcpds youtu.be/EhZK6U0papc

3.
ALL THE CATECHISMS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HAVE TAUGHT THE RIGORIST VIEW OF EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/…/all-catechisms-…
4.
The Vatican Councils of the Catholic Church have clearly taught that formal membership in the Catholic Church IS absolutely necessary for salvation

eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/…/vatican-council…-
5

No pope has said that those saved in invincible ignorance are known to us and so are exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus

eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/…/no-pope-has-sai…

Being saved in invincible ignorance is not a defacto exception to the teaching of Cantate Domino Council of Florence
eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/…/being-saved-in-…

eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/…/michael-voris-a…
EJGCatholic
Prayers for Detroit
(pray fro the Bishop, a good man, who has to deal within a local Curia/Chancery in bad need of renewal/reform-EJG)
Please watch the official response from St. Michael's Media to the latest press releases from the Archdiocese of Detroit.
youtu.be/RNiOwYtv7oQ
-
www.lifesitenews.com/news/archdiocesan-ca…
EJGCatholic
in reference to above article webiste a reviw Archdiocese of Detroit priests news.. 😲
www.catholicculture.org/culture/reviews/view.cfm
mcurran167@hotmail.com
Detroit? Poor Detroit, not the most blessed city in America; wonder why? Hmmmm
Tu_es_Petrus
Rhemes,
God reveals His will through others and situations in our lives. I was talking about the request from the Archdiocese as God speaking to Michael Voris. Are you under the impression that we are made aware of His will for us only through some private revelation or inspiration? He doesn't have to pray about it (technically) if his superiors make a legitimate request. That should go without …More
Rhemes,
God reveals His will through others and situations in our lives. I was talking about the request from the Archdiocese as God speaking to Michael Voris. Are you under the impression that we are made aware of His will for us only through some private revelation or inspiration? He doesn't have to pray about it (technically) if his superiors make a legitimate request. That should go without saying. The difference of opinion we have is in whether M. Voris owes any allegiance to the Archdiocese of Detroit. I've only read snippets, so I can't say that I'm fully informed on that.

And no, I don't have a personal issue with Voris. I'm actually a fan and I don't want to see him discredited where it matters, within the church. The saints never worked outside the church.

I don't understand why my employment example surprises you. Did Caesar Augustus have charge of Joseph's and Mary's soul? They were obedient to him by participating in the census.
Holy Cannoli
I think it would be more heroic to simply heed the request of the Detroit Archdiocese.
To suggest that Voris obeys a bishop who has no jurisdiction, further proves how out of touch you actually are with the Catholic Church of 2011. Actually, I think it would be "more heroic" for you just to shut up, admit you're wrong and go away but I doubt that that will happen either.
As for your insults toward …More
I think it would be more heroic to simply heed the request of the Detroit Archdiocese.

To suggest that Voris obeys a bishop who has no jurisdiction, further proves how out of touch you actually are with the Catholic Church of 2011. Actually, I think it would be "more heroic" for you just to shut up, admit you're wrong and go away but I doubt that that will happen either.

As for your insults toward others and me, they can only defile you.

Defile?

LOL
-----------------------------------
Gloria.tv should outright ban you for that vitriol on a supposedly "more catholic" website.

Vitriol?

LOL
-----------------------------------

I'M OFFICIALLY MAKING THAT REQUEST.

All caps?
Officially as opposed to non-officially?

LOL
----------------------------------------

If they don't, that means that they value your input more than mine. And that will be that.

Of course they value my input more than yours. It's not complicated. You're a simple little man who seldom makes a substantive comment and now your panties are all in a bunch because of that big bad Holy Cannoli.
🤬

You lose, Little Man. Your opinions on the subject of this thread (obedience) are simplistic and you don't like being called on it.

Look, take your ego and your attitude and stuff it where
the sun don't shine. And, if you don't like the way they run this website, start your own where you can do things exactly the way you want.

Go in peace, Aquinas.

😘
Tu_es_Petrus
Rhemes,
I don't know that he needs to discern anything. That's my point. I believe God has already suggested His will to him, and now Mr. Voris has to make a decision. He can certainly consult his own bishop, but I think it would be more heroic to simply heed the request of the Detroit Archdiocese. If he believes that God speaks through the church then the question is only how much does he believe …More
Rhemes,
I don't know that he needs to discern anything. That's my point. I believe God has already suggested His will to him, and now Mr. Voris has to make a decision. He can certainly consult his own bishop, but I think it would be more heroic to simply heed the request of the Detroit Archdiocese. If he believes that God speaks through the church then the question is only how much does he believe it. The spirit of his apostolate is being tested through patience and obedience. I hope he passes, unlike some others.

For example, my employer is my superior. When my manager makes a reasonable request of me, it is as if God made that request. It is God's will for me to perform that task. If a manager from a different department makes a request that doesn't interfere with my normal duties, e.g. I don't have to ask permission, that's also God's will for me. It is also prudent, because another manager is likewise a superior though not directly.

The argument that others are using "Catholic" without repercussions is easily defeated with the proverbial "If you saw someone jump off the building..." We are to be better then them, and I hope so is Michael Voris.
Tu_es_Petrus
HC,
Straw man case closed (I never opened it). As for your insults toward others and me, they can only defile you. Gloria.tv should outright ban you for that vitriol on a supposedly "more catholic" website. I'M OFFICIALLY MAKING THAT REQUEST. If they don't, that means that they value your input more than mine. And that will be that.
Rhemes,
I spoke my opinion and quoted Saints of the Church, for …More
HC,
Straw man case closed (I never opened it). As for your insults toward others and me, they can only defile you. Gloria.tv should outright ban you for that vitriol on a supposedly "more catholic" website. I'M OFFICIALLY MAKING THAT REQUEST. If they don't, that means that they value your input more than mine. And that will be that.

Rhemes,
I spoke my opinion and quoted Saints of the Church, for which I'm apparently a "stupid little man" who would give in to a pedophile as an act of virtue. Go figure. I appreciate your effort to have a civil discourse though.

Of course, Michael Voris doesn't have a duty to obey, but he does have an opportunity to exercise heroic obedience and differentiate himself from others, like the Black Sheepdog. We should all strive to be like the saints who suffered tremendously, even at the hands of the church hiararchy. Our salvation is in the cross, because those who live by the sword will perish by it.

Today is the feast of the Holy Family and I just thought I'd tie the lesson to this current event.

😇
Holy Cannoli
It would actually be quite easy to obey as what is being asked for is neither unreasonable nor immoral.
So then, under certain conditions even you WOULD DISOBEY your bishop. Case closed, little man.
-------------------------------
HC, your vulgarity isn't helping your arguments
.
Nor is your stupidity helping yours.
🤗More
It would actually be quite easy to obey as what is being asked for is neither unreasonable nor immoral.

So then, under certain conditions even you WOULD DISOBEY your bishop. Case closed, little man.
-------------------------------

HC, your vulgarity isn't helping your arguments
.

Nor is your stupidity helping yours.

🤗
Tu_es_Petrus
Straw man. There's no duty to disobey here. It would actually be quite easy to obey as what is being asked for is neither unreasonable nor immoral.
HC, your vulgarity isn't helping your arguments.
Rhemes, holy obedience doesn't mean obedience only to direct superiors. It means obedience to the will of God and a distaste for one's own will.More
Straw man. There's no duty to disobey here. It would actually be quite easy to obey as what is being asked for is neither unreasonable nor immoral.

HC, your vulgarity isn't helping your arguments.

Rhemes, holy obedience doesn't mean obedience only to direct superiors. It means obedience to the will of God and a distaste for one's own will.
Holy Cannoli
And to suggest that blindly obeying clerics is virtuous is clericalism, the attitude that a Roman collar sets a man above all others and he should be obeyed in all matters both religious and secular. What nonsense when bishops throughout history have been responsible for so much evil. It was a bishop who conspired with the English to burn Joan of Arc at the stake. It was the entire bench of bishops …More
And to suggest that blindly obeying clerics is virtuous is clericalism, the attitude that a Roman collar sets a man above all others and he should be obeyed in all matters both religious and secular. What nonsense when bishops throughout history have been responsible for so much evil. It was a bishop who conspired with the English to burn Joan of Arc at the stake. It was the entire bench of bishops in England minus one, John Fisher, who went along with Henry VIII's evil plan to set aside Catherine, marry Ann Boleyn, and declare himself head of the Church.

Bishops used clericalism when they browbeat parents of sexually abused children into silence assuring them the matter would be taken care of and then moving the abusers again and again. They accused parents of wanting to destroy the Church. Sadly, the parents' silence enabled the evil to continue for decades. Failing to sound the alarm multiplied the problem exponentially.

lesfemmes-thetruth.blogspot.com/…/obedience-somet…
Holy Cannoli
But when a bishop steps outside the deposit of the faith to make up his own rules, the laity, and even his priests, do not owe him obedience. Certainly, the priests under Arian bishops had not only the right, but the duty to disobey.
lesfemmes-thetruth.blogspot.com/…/obedience-somet…
More
But when a bishop steps outside the deposit of the faith to make up his own rules, the laity, and even his priests, do not owe him obedience. Certainly, the priests under Arian bishops had not only the right, but the duty to disobey.

lesfemmes-thetruth.blogspot.com/…/obedience-somet…
Tu_es_Petrus
Quote me a saint, not a blogger.
"We must put aside all judgment of our own, and keep the mind ever ready and prompt to obey in all things the true Spouse of Christ our Lord, our holy Mother, the hierarchical Church."
--Saint Ignatius of Loyola
”The more we see that any action springs not from the motive of obedience, the more evident is it that it is a temptation of the enemy; for when God sends …More
Quote me a saint, not a blogger.

"We must put aside all judgment of our own, and keep the mind ever ready and prompt to obey in all things the true Spouse of Christ our Lord, our holy Mother, the hierarchical Church."
--Saint Ignatius of Loyola

”The more we see that any action springs not from the motive of obedience, the more evident is it that it is a temptation of the enemy; for when God sends an inspiration, the very first effect of it is to infuse a spirit of docility.”
--Saint Teresa of Avila, Doctor of the Church


”Obedience is a penance of reason, and, on that account, a sacrifice more acceptable than all corporal penances and mortifications.”
--Saint John of the Cross, Doctor of the Church

whitelilyoftrinity.com/saints_quotes_obedience.html

I must admit I was tempted to post one of those quotes as my own and observe the reaction.

🧐
Holy Cannoli
Whether we agree with the bishops or not, they are legitimate authority.
The conclusion being that bishops are always to be obeyed?
Bull Shite!
Bishops have authority and the duty to teach, govern, and sanctify their flocks in the faith. Their authority is intrinsically linked to the authority of the Pope and the Church. When they teach according to the mind of the Church, the flock is bound to …More
Whether we agree with the bishops or not, they are legitimate authority.

The conclusion being that bishops are always to be obeyed?

Bull Shite!

Bishops have authority and the duty to teach, govern, and sanctify their flocks in the faith. Their authority is intrinsically linked to the authority of the Pope and the Church. When they teach according to the mind of the Church, the flock is bound to obey. But when a bishop steps outside the deposit of the faith to make up his own rules, the laity, and even his priests, do not owe him obedience. Certainly, the priests under Arian bishops had not only the right, but the duty to disobey. Every heresy in the Church that I can think of originated with a cleric. Nestorius was a bishop. Martin Luther was a priest/monk. Arius was a priest. Not much is known about Pelagius, but he is commonly referred to as a British monk. Should the flock have followed these men because they wore Roman collars?

lesfemmes-thetruth.blogspot.com/…/obedience-somet…
Tu_es_Petrus
I just wanted to mention (especially today) that the Holy Family was obedient to a tyrant so that God's will would be fulfilled. I hope that Michael Voris (whom I like) will likewise see God's will in what is happening and follows through in a similar fashion.
Whether we agree with the bishops or not, they are legitimate authority. Due to their special office, they are even more so than our employers …More
I just wanted to mention (especially today) that the Holy Family was obedient to a tyrant so that God's will would be fulfilled. I hope that Michael Voris (whom I like) will likewise see God's will in what is happening and follows through in a similar fashion.

Whether we agree with the bishops or not, they are legitimate authority. Due to their special office, they are even more so than our employers, presidents, military leaders, and most certainly Roman emperors.

Salvation comes through the cross, not by doing what we think is best. The security of doing God's will is always in obedience and it is obedience that separates the saints from the apostates. Even Christ's obedience looked like a failure, but it saved mankind.

😇
Michel-René Landry
HEY! Welcome back holy rope 3! 🤗
Long time no see!
Union of prayer!
Deo gratias!
holyrope 3
We need more warriors like Michael who care about our Catholic faith enough to Stand Firm and Resolute in its orthodoxy, all the while exposing the enemies! May the Good Lord continue to bless you in your work Michael. Let us please support his work, as he is not alone, but is being a true servant who is answering God's call. Prayers for you Michael, and continued success!
tbswv
I am convinced it will be the the laity who save this Church from ruin. The battle lines are drawn. Christ's Church is being assalted on all sides by Jews, Muslims, Buddists, Atheists, Protestants etc. Even the Pontiff is ignored by his bishops. In the end, we the faithful the Church Militant (Ecclesia Militans), will triumph. Be fearless, speak up, and defend Christ's church in this godless world.
Veritas Vos Liberabit
dear Archdiocese of Detroit ,In meditations written for the Way of the Cross at the Rome Colosseum on Good Friday, March 25, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger said too many Catholics continue to scorn and scourge Jesus in his church.
"Christ suffers in his own church," he said. He described "the falling of many Christians away from Christ and into a godless secularism," but also the fall of those Catholics …More
dear Archdiocese of Detroit ,In meditations written for the Way of the Cross at the Rome Colosseum on Good Friday, March 25, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger said too many Catholics continue to scorn and scourge Jesus in his church.

"Christ suffers in his own church," he said. He described "the falling of many Christians away from Christ and into a godless secularism," but also the fall of those Catholics who abuse the sacraments or their positions in the church.

"How much filth there is in the church, and even among those who, in the priesthood, ought to belong entirely to him," How much pride, how much self-sufficiency."he wrote. He said the church often seems like "a boat about to sink, a boat taking in water on every side."
"The soiled garments and face of Your Church throw us into confusion. Yet it is we ourselves who have soiled them! It is we who betray you time and time again," he wrote.
"Have mercy on your church," he prayed. "When we fall, we drag you down to earth, and Satan laughs, for he hopes that you will not be able to rise from that fall; he hopes that being dragged down in the fall of your church, you will remain prostrate and overpowered."-PAX God Bless you Mr. Voris 🙏