Jt: Why don't we let the Holy Father Benedict XVI, speak for himself, concerning the New Mass. A 1999 letter by then Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI)
on the reform of the Liturgy Fr. Matias Auge CMF, a veteran professor of liturgy in Rome, former consultant to the Congregation for Divine Worship and disciple of the reformers of the 1960's, publishedan exchange of letters that he had with then-Cardinal Ratzinger on the topic of the
reform of the sacred liturgy. (Natasja Hoven, who works … [Más]

The Visibility of the Church is directly linked to the Roman Pontiff. And while during an interregnum the church is "Popeless," for a short period of time, this is not a part of the ordinary constitution of the Church and must necessarily be of short duration. The longest interregnum in the Church to date is less than three years. If the sedevacantists are right, then the present interregnum is ten times greater than that one. Thus the visibility of the Church, embodied in the person of the … [Más]

@ F Loughnan: "”Canon I. If anyone saith that in the Mass a true and proper sacrifice is not offered to God…let him be anathema."

What Mass would that be, Father? Certainly not the Mass of Paul VI which hadn't been "invented" yet. Even the Holy Father has described the Novus Ordo as is generally practiced as a "banal, on the spot product." His words. But a sacrifice is offered at some point.

No worries. I think the "Ordinary Form" will run it's course and, once it's devotees of the generation … [Más]

This mass is more about the community, tolerance, inculturation and love than about sacrifice to God. This is a human inspired liturgy, rather than that of the Divine. This mass does not express the sacraments the way Christ established it.

PROTESTANTS, Radical traditionalist, non-judgmental-judgmentalist, AND OTHER NON-CATHOLICS DO NOT HAVE THE FAITH
Now it is manifest that he who adheres to the teaching of the Church, as to an infallible rule, assents to whatever the Church teaches; otherwise, if, of the things taught by the Church, he holds what he chooses to hold, and rejects what he chooses to reject, he no longer adheres to the teaching of the Church as to an infallible rule, but to his own will... Therefore it is clear that … [Más]

all you have prove is that anti-pope paul vi is liar and he is the anti-Christ

It is also not for me to provide a "proof" - for you belong to a non-Catholic sect

so it's against new church policies to convert people to the new church

A Pope can never fall in to heresy

A Pope can never teach heresy in his extraordinary or ordinarily magisterium

Further more, I have not claimed to be Pope or can I judge a Pope,

PROTESTANTS AND OTHER NON-CATHOLICS DO NOT HAVE THE FAITH
Now it is manifest … [Más]

You prove to me that the
Novus Ordo Rite is the Roman Rite, ? Please prove to me the impossible

You prove to me that Roman rite was not done away with, ?

I don't care about, what Anti-Pope
benedict XVI saids anti-pope paul VI outlawed the Roman Rite, ST.PIUS V said infallibility that the Roman rite has perpetual to end of time, a true Pope has power of the keys. Each pope has the same authority. So pope can not loose what another pope has binded infallibly,that would be takeing the piss out … [Más]

rhemes,Yep, that's what he did! No surprise to me. No use in arguing with him, he is a slave to his intellect, full of intellectual arrogance, pride and anger. One good thing came out of this thread for me, I know that you are not a radical traditionalist. NEVER let protestants like woody confuse you. Now you know what questions to ask.

God Bless You,
Happy Easter,
John

J.Salza in his article says, Trent and Nicea II saids a Pope can impose a harmful rite upon the Church. Trent anathematized anyone who would create a new rite, so it obviously contemplated that such could occur. Nicea II also anathematized anyone who would set aside the ecclesiastical traditions of the Church.The Pope Promulgation of the new rite did not invoke the pope's charism of infallibility,
If a true Pope did not not invoke the gift of charism of infallibility,then a pope can impose a … [Más]

I will answer the question . LATER!!

if I was A sedevacantist, it would be no need to answer your question,

. John loughnan
"The Pope, the council,and the mass" are the Authors James Likoudis and Kennedy D. Whitehead ,The article is "A DEFENCE OF THE PAULINE MASS" which as similar responses as the book . In the article as page reference to

Whitehead, p. 59-60).
(Whitehead, p. 46-47).
Whitehead, p. 78)
(Whitehead, p. 80).
(Whitehead, 82).
(Whitehead, p. 85).
(Whitehead, 120).
(Whitehead, 131
(Whitehead, 101),
(Whitehead, 109
Whitehead, 114)
(Whitehead, 58, 59)

I no longer have the book and not much … [Más]

The Pope can

Viva Cristo Rey !

impose a harmful rite upon the Church as Trent and Nicea II says. so its obviously contemplated that such could occur. Trent and Nicea II also anathematized anyone who would set aside the ecclesiastical traditions of the Church. Pope Paul VI did not invoke the pope's charism of infallibility when he promulgated the Novus Ordo. Further more he never juridically abrogated the traditional Missal as Benedict xvi has said. So all the modern bishops who have been … [Más]

F John Loughnan,
John They should NOT have the Precious Blood in glass containers, PERIOD! In California, like many other places, the emphasis is on a "meal". They should have had just the Host for all of those people. How much of our Lords Blood was spilled? I have seen SO MUCH abuse of this kind in liberal parishes, It's awful! Consecrating the Precious Blood the way they did is not allowed, for obvious reasons. This will not be a news flash, but, MOST OF THE CATHOLICS IN THERE DON'T BELIEVE … [Más]

F. John Loughnan,
I must admit that really I don't mind when you level you guns at Woody. I think in debate he needs to be shocked back to his senses! He espouses
an all out attack on Holy Mother Church. I see very little difference between him and some of the Baptists down here in Kentucky. He like them are ALWAYS attacking the authority of the Church, which, by the way, belongs to Jesus Christ, who IS God!

John

F. John Loughnan,
SORRY, John you went over the top with rhemes. You haven't read all of rhemes post in this thread. My dear friend you didn't leave you anger with the SSPX. Listen I felt ripped off by all the years I didn't hear all the truth from the pulpit in a liberal parish in Ca. I also had to endure a lot of liturgical ABUSE, man could I tell you stories, but I agree the Mass was valid. The Eucharist at that time is what got me through. I too think that ultra-traditionalist are … [Más]

Woody,Is the Novus Ordo Mass valid?

John

thebedards, that comment was not attended for you. it's funny that you didn't answer the first question.it was not a trick. by your other answers. I presume you're saying that false religions are not means of salvation.
Pius XI said that those who are invincibly ignorant of the Church may still be saved, but this is a narrow exception to the divine rule. Pius IX condemned the notion that those outside the Catholic Church have a good hope of eternal life. Entertaining such an idea undermines the … [Más]

Fr. John Loughnan,I noticed that you had an article by Art Sippo. He post in this forum a lot:http://www.surprisedbytruth.com/forum/

It's a very good forum, WELL, maybe not for radical traditionalist.

John

Woody,Do you really think I'm going to respond and debate you when you start quoting "experts" you think justify you protesting position? I answered your questions and quoted the catechism. That's why I asked if you had one. You said you had 4. Do you have a problem with the Catechism? If I want to hear liberal or rad-trad opinions I can find a disobedient "Catholic" news paper. Plenty of "experts" there!

John

Holyrope posted:woody437 & rhemes1582

Something tells me you are not one of "Their" crowd, an I right?

John

John, are you still reading your Bible,The Pope, the Council, and the Mass" it's all over your website here is a rebuttal by Alcuin Reid, O.S.B catholic liturgists. he has good book coming out called Continuity or Rupture? A Study of The Liturgical Reform of the Second Vatican Council
Author: Dr. Alcuin Reid

There are questions which render the republication of this book a little curious, even considering the appendices and notes added to the revised edition.

The principal question that … [Más]

The Priest is acting like a tradesmen at market behind a table selling some bread and baskets, wine, orange juice Jugs.
he has been working at the market for a long time and he sees his friends coming. He goes out to cuddle kiss his friends and in the market place their is music bands he and his friends start singing songs and some new age dancer's are coming to join in. And has friends say NO!!. the traditionalists are coming chanting Agnus dei qui tollis peccata mundi!!! with St.benedict's … [Más]

Woody,Just a little side note: It's my opinion, that most people in the Catholic Church will not be saved.

John

Yes thebedards I have four Catechism's

Question 1 do you believe that false religions are means of salvation. ?
By a false religion do you mean a religion that would teach that Vatican II was corrupt or the Novus Ordo Mass was not valid?

Question 2 do you believe the Catholic Church is the one and only ark of salvation. ?
I believe that the Catholic Church is the TRUE Church instituted by God

Question 3 do you believe people who knows the Catholic Church is the true church of Christ but do … [Más]

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

848 "Although in ways known to … [Más]

woody-you and Ronald McDonald have the same weight in your opinion of the Catholic Church-you're not part of the Church-you are a schismatic SSPX-a clueless rebel.

@jabulon:

Yeah, looks like some kind of Alien-Religion in Star Trek ...

...live long and prosper and may the force be with you!

Great Outfits! Right after that they attack the death star with general Akbar!