[EDITOR NOTE: All of the references to the saints and holy elders were copied and pasted from an article being prepared and researched by Hieromonk Kosmas of the Orthodox Monastery of the Archangel Michael (OMAM), Sydney soon to be uploaded to the OMAM website. ]
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| In reply to Jean.
The spirit in which this discussion is being conducted looks to be the spirit of scientism; or the belief that science is the only way to know anything. However, because this idea is really easy to prove false – i.e. proper science can’t even justify the proper scientific method – we have to start including other branches of knowledge, before we hope to gain any ground.
Firstly, as an Orthodox Christian – versed even just well enough in its theology and philosophy; and therefore able to bear witness to its superiority over any other schools of thought – its teachings, including from the saints and elders, come first. In this regard, we can immediately point to saints of the past who accurately predicted the events of today. While prophecy may not always be reliable, the fact that the details of these prophecies are eerily close to what’s already happened so far, leads one to believe that their predicted outcomes will also be on the mark. In short, God bearing elders know what they’re talking about, when they know what they’re talking about. See below for more: Saint Paisios the Athonite: “They will find a disease for which they will make a vaccine, which will be mandatory, and which will be the beginning of the sealing.” This was said no less than 30 years ago. Elder Savvas Achilleos of Athens († 2016): “They are warning us that the flu is coming. How do they know this? Tell me, how? It is because they themselves will manufacture it and release it. Possibly, this will not be a common epidemic form of the flu, but a flu that will come when they themselves will bring it upon the world. A manufactured disease right from the United States of America. What causes this new disease which looks like the common flu? It is caused by a pathogenic mycoplasma. These are the medical terms. It will be transmitted through an anti-flu vaccine. This is the point where we must be very careful. The world will feel the need to receive the anti-flu shot, yet this vaccine will contain a cruel illness in and of itself and will not contain anything that will prevent people from contracting the virus. It is highly recommended to not proceed to any vaccination.” Elder Justin Parvu of Romania (†2013) (whose body may have given off myrrh while he was alive, and definitely at his funeral): “Fathers will give up their sons, mothers, their daughters, unto death. Behold, we witness the fulfillment of this prophecy. If the mother will let the child be vaccinated, it’s as if giving him over to die…. So, do not receive this vaccine or anything that the new political powers bring you today.” Moreover, there is the rationalistic belief in the Church that saints and holy elders can not speak reliably on medical matters, if they have not studied the subject. This however is proven false by at least two modern day saints; namely, St. Porphyrios (†1991), who, despite only having a very basic education, used to be invited by doctors into consultations with their patients; and the abovementioned St. Paisios. Only completing elementary school, we read in the life of the latter that, “He was knowledgeable about everything, though without occupying himself with everything. He knew about the things of the world while living in the desert. Though far from everyone, he was spiritually with all, and he loved the entire world. He knew many things without having studied. He associated comfortably with scientists and other distinguished people, speaking with them easily and without any feelings of inferiority. On the contrary, the worldly wise consulted him…. He could, with one descriptive hand gesture, communicate information about a person or an entire situation.” With that, let’s consider how many grace-filled elders in the world today are warning us not to take the shots, due to them being very dangerous. Elder Gabriel the Athonite, a disciple of Saint Paisios, said the following on 27 June 2021, “We are not going to be vaccinated! Renowned doctors are saying it. The Abbot of St Paul said, ‘Whoever is vaccinated will live for only 3-5 years.’…They want to depopulate the world, this is why they create vaccines. I was told they will create many vaccines which will dominate their body and study the brain. With a click of a finger, they will create Hypertension and Thrombosis. They want to depopulate the world; they’re scared to start a war because they’ll be in danger…. If you take the vaccine you might not have another chance to make another mistake. How many decades have they been around? Nobody was forced before to take the vaccines and now they’re forcing you, it’s dangerous.” Elder Parthenius of St Paul’s Monastery, Mount Athos, gave a talk on 13 January 2021, saying we must pray that “this evil, this storm, this disease will pass us by.” In the same talk, the respected Elder emphasizes that he does not bless anyone to receive the coronavirus vaccine, because it is too much in line with what is written in Revelation 13, which describes the seal that will be required for people to buy or sell, or to live an ordinary life. The Elder notes that this is not exactly the same thing, but the similarities are apparent. It is especially telling, the Elder believes, that the companies that produce the vaccine are exempt from any liability, which is a mockery of the people. Elder Euthymius of Kapsala, Mount Athos, another disciple of Saint Paisios, writes in a letter dated 20 June 2021, “We are not against vaccines in general. The old and tried vaccines saved many. The newer ones have many unwanted effects. Regarding this specific vaccine, people are justifiably fearful. This is a vaccine that became compulsory by law even before it was made, of which the producing companies were exempt from responsibilities and compensations, which was put into use so quickly before it was sufficiently tested, which does not fully protect the vaccinated, and every day we learn of serious side-effects and deaths of vaccinated individuals. We learn these facts not only from statistics but also from acquaintances and relatives of ours… If the vaccine was truly sufficiently tested and effectively protected without side effects and deaths, people would be internally informed and all of this propaganda and pressure would be unnecessary. They would ask for the vaccine on their own. Too long have our people been plagued with this painful coronavirus affair. Let them at last leave everyone free to act according to his judgement, without pressure.” Elder Philotheos of Karakallou Monastery, Mount Athos, on 11 June 2021, in an interview, said, “We sense that the coming of this pandemic was no accident, and in fact, that it was manufactured. And then came the vaccine, supposedly ‘to suppress the pandemic,’ but we sense that this is all being directed, is artificial, in order to achieve what they want—their ultimate purpose…. future sealing…. And they’re preparing for all this now. So we see in what a dictatorial way they are trying to push the vaccine! With what brainwashing from the media and the internet! And we know they’re paying the reporters, the channels, and all that…. They abolish democracy, abolish human rights, abolish so many things these days. How do they reconcile all this? Under the pretext, of course, of the pandemic that they have produced.” Elder Savvas Agioritis (the Athonite), a graduate of the School of Dentistry and the School of Theology, at the University of Thessaloniki, said on 31 December 2020, “There exists on the Internet a video where Bill Gates says that if we succeed and everything goes well with the vaccine and the other measures we are taking, we will succeed in reducing the global population by 15 percent; and he considers this a success – eliminating 1 billion people! And he’s saying this to our face, that this will happen through the vaccine. There exist naïve, very naïve people who will rush to get the vaccine. We owe it to them to forewarn and inform them of all this.” Metropolitan Neophytos of Morphou, Cyprus, who many consider to be a grace-filled elder and is a great venerator of the contemporary elders of Greece, said on 13 May 2021: “I have not been vaccinated so far nor do I intend to be vaccinated in the future, as I consider these vaccines very dangerous. After all, in many of my interviews and sermons, which are already circulating on the internet, I have clearly and responsibly explained the reasons why I refuse to be vaccinated.” Moving on, and so as not to completely discount science, there are, of course, many credible doctors who are not mincing any words when they urge us to avoid these shots. Examples of these doctors are easy for anyone to find; and have already been covered extensively on this website. Then there’s the history of politics. If one cares enough to look, they’ll find nothing less than over a centuries’ worth of literature – written by none other than the social engineers themselves! – outlining their plan for a future world resembling a Frankenstein style mixture of scientism, rationalism, paganism, communism and capitalism. And if this isn’t enough information for people, these goals are enshrined in the eminently viewable works of the United Nations’ charter, including Agenda 2030, and its demand for everything that’s currently being made possible by the ‘pandemic.’ Key works to note in this regard belong to the likes of Aldous and Julian Huxley (mad scientists; fake philosophers; and/or United Nationists); Jonas Salk (godfather of inoculation who aspired to widespread use of vaccinations, for the purpose of manipulating humans); HG. Wells (author of the not so subtly titled The Open Conspiracy, as well as other works, which endorsed an elitist takeover, which would result in mountains of skulls); Zbigniew Brzezinski (author of Beyond Two Worlds, who noted that, “In the future, we shall have the means to manipulate the behavior and intellectual functioning of all people through environmental and biochemical manipulation of the brain.”). The above list is not exhaustive and makes no mention of all of those – like Bill Gates – whose sinister goals should be well known. Now, when one takes all of the above knowledge into account and compares it to what the pro-vaxxers have to offer, I think that there’s hardly a comparison to be made. While we ultimately have no choice but to wait and see what comes of all this, I have no reservations in being extremely suspicious; being extremely suspicious being the only reasonable thing to do. |
Regarding Elder Porphyrios, I have heard from credible sources that he was often consulted by secular authorities in regards to scientific matters.
With all due respect, but in the Orthodox Church we have Doctor Saints, like Saint Luke of Crimea, whose opinions on vaccination are perhaps more relevant than those of the monastics cited in the article above.
And .. what did he say about vaccinations? More interestingly, about the current generation of mRNA Covid19 genetic “vaccines” which many doctors and researchers do not regard as any kind of “vaccine” at all in first place not having any biological agent that works as antigen which all conventional vaccines have and also their mechanism of inoculation which are genetic pathways entirely experimental on general population. You mentioned “saints” any others that can shed light on these current genetic bio-intervention experiments on human populations?
The opinions of the monks cited in the article were against vaccination in general, not against specific mRNA vaccines. This attitude agains vaccination in general directly contradicts the life of St. Luke of Crimea, and also St. Innocent of Moscow who both used vaccination. I read somewhere that St. Innocent used smallpox vaccination to help the Alaskan natives, and this was one of the missionary tools that helped in their conversion to Holy Orthodoxy.
So my point is that anti-vaccine ideology is incompatible with the teaching and experience of the saints of the Church.
Then there are of course details about vaccine A or vaccine B or vaccine C, using this or that technology. I know many rational people who have refuse this or that vaccine for this or that reason. But when one is against ALL the dozen or so coronavirus vaccines it begins to smell like anti-vaccine ideology.
There have been no successful corona virus ‘vaccines’.
Why not? Antibody Dependent Enhancement.
The spike protein is toxic. The ‘vaccines’ produce the spike protein.
There are no completed safety trials for any corona virus ‘vaccine’.
There are no long term safety data for any corona virus ‘vaccine’.
The ideology seems to me to be on your side of the divide.
And Ted Kaczynski.
“…extremely suspicious…the only reasonable thing…”
Very well said.
“…extremely suspicious…the only reasonable thing…”
I STRONGLY 2nd this cautious approach. I personally know a man that almost lost his life and is now in a horrible physical state after getting the jab. He had recovered from Covid, his job insisted, he obeyed & BAM! It does not look like he will ever be able to walk normally or grip normally again.
Have you suggested he get a lawyer? If I were his employer, I’d be sweating bullets right now.
And what of the hundreds of monks on Mt. Athos who are being vaccinated and other holy elders who are encouraging people to get vaccinated?
Well, find us some grace-filled ones and then we can talk. In the meantime, the point of the essay can’t be forgotten: 1. saints and holy elders undoutedly prophesied what we’ve seen so far, and so when they say things will get worse, we should also pay attention; 2. Grace-filled elders alive today are in agreement with the above; 3. There are many doctors who are not only good at what they do, but who are also in agreement with the abovementioned SPIRIT-BEARING men when they say not to accept the shots; 4. The elites, social engineers – call them what you want – have told us themselves what they’re up to, and this ‘pandemic’, including its ‘solutions’, are clearly their handiwork.
Think of what all that means and then compare it to the monks on Mt Athos who, in agreement with the godforsaken governments, MSM and medical establishment, have run off to get the shots.
I believe in Scripture there is passage that states “and even the elect shall be deceived.” But these monks really quite frankly they’ve just failed basic elementary research.
I have commented here quite a bit recently about the “science” (or rather the lack thereof) surrounding this whole issue of this COVID vaccination safety and efficacy. However, my own primary concern with these vaccines has very little to do with their safety or their efficacy.
As Christians, we do not accept anything as good merely because it seems to “work” or appears to be “safe.” Although there are many examples of such utilitarian approaches that tempt so many in our day, the example of abortion immediately comes to mind. We do not and cannot accept the murder of children merely because it appears to be “safe” or seems to be a reasonable solution to various “problems” (such as unwed motherhood, poverty, etc.). The apparent safety or efficacy of anything are not the criteria that guide us. All purely utilitarian approaches appear to be safe and effective, but anything that disregards the commandments of God or violates our conscience kills our souls and eventually comes back to haunt us (both personally and as a society) in ways we could never have imagined.
So whether this vaccine is eventually shown to be “safe” (in the utilitarian terms described above) or not is, for me, completely beside the point.
Most Christians, Orthodox or heterodox (and most certainly the leaders [Bartholomew, Met Hilarion, Pope Francis, the Southern Baptist Convention, etc.]), are fully aware of the origin of these vaccines in their development and testing. Some, although I suspect not all, are also aware of the abject evil surrounding ongoing NIH (and other research institutions) that extends far beyond “a single abortion performed in the early 70’s” and that the killing and exploitation of unborn “for the sake scientific progress and the health of all mankind” continues to this very day.
Yet they, including my own local bishop, advise us to salve (or rather sear) our consciences in the name of “solidarity,” personal health. and “love for our neighbor,” raising no objections to the pervasive evils involved in current medical research or the coercive spirit of this age that is increasing by the day. Knowing the evil, they look the other way, blindly advise us of what they seem to believe will “work,” and are not ashamed to tell us that they themselves have been vaccinated “on the advice of their doctor.”
It is sheer nonsense to believe it is possible love others while disregarding the commandments of God.
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.
These factors, far and away above any considerations of safety or efficacy, are more than enough to convince me that there is every reason to be skeptical. There is a dark, unholy spirit at work in this that has managed to pervade the entire world with fear, deception, and confusion. Despite all the arguments, the sensitive souls I know can feel it deep within themselves and know this to be true. It is a sort of knowledge that transcends academic theology or rational science, a knowledge known only to those who know God and keep His commandments regardless of the prevailing wisdom or the consequences to themselves.
Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego answered and said to the king, “O Nebuchadnezzar, we have no need to answer you in this matter. If that is the case, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and He will deliver us from your hand, O king. But if not, let it be known to you, O king, that we do not serve your gods, nor will we worship the gold image which you have set up.”
…whether we live or die, we are the LORD’s
“There is a dark, unholy spirit at work in this that has managed to pervade the entire world with fear, deception, and confusion”
Indeed. And when we consider the deeply immoral character of our times, we can also start to say that anything deeply immoral man touches from hereon must invariably turn to you know what. And the truth of that statement can summed up in the oft repeated one of “they sure don’t make things how they used to.” Everything is cheap and nasty and is but a shell of what it used to be. And how could it be otherwise when it’s everything from porn addicts to satanic paedophiles that are behind the production of these things?
…and yet amongst all this we’re now supposed to believe that somehow the governments, the media, the medical establishment, and yes, even *vaccinated monks on Mt Athos, have miraculously remained unscathed by the times, and are acting in accordance with the highest good
*I’m of course not saying here that the monks are porn addicts or satanists, but simply that the extreme poor quality of our times can even affect them if they’re not careful
Brian, that post is, in my estimation, the most eloquent and persuasive of your many posts here. I am gratified that we agree fully on this crucial issue.
While I don’t know anyone who has died from COVID (or even ‘with’ COVID), I do know of half a dozen people (friends of friends, or friends’ family) who have died very soon after getting vaccinated.
Definitely on the suspicious side.
You don’t know anyone who died from Covid? You need to get out more often . Several of my kids teachers have died since the beginning of the pandemic. A coworker of mine also died last week. I don’t know a single person who died as a result of the vaccine. I simply do not believe your statement or you live a very sheltered life.
I don’t know any person who died of COVID either. I’ve heard of people who have died, as we all have. – The thing is, why go after Basil about this? Why are you angry? The thing with the vaccine is that for those who die from taking the vaccine are minuscule from the number of all kinds of things that will follow.
For example, the husband of my cousin who was a real champion of the vaccine got the injection in March, I believe. He was fine. A week or so ago he was diagnosed with a relatively minor form of cancer and before he could even start treatment, he died.
aprilj
While I don’t personally know anyone who has died of the vaccine, I know many people who have gotten violently ill post injection.
I also do not know anyone who has died of Covid.
No, I don’t. No one from my wife’s family (I don’t have contact with my own), none of my friends, none of the parishioners from my church, nobody. I do know people that got very sick but recovered, though.
But yes, I have heard of around half a dozen people that died suddenly after the vaccine. I didn’t know any personally, but believe the accounts of my friends.
Admittedly, I do work from home and my children are homeschooled, but I have a wide circle of friends and a fairly active social schedule. Hardly sheltered.
And of course now, we’ve gone full “Alice in the looking-glass” land as written by George Orwell: now, anybody who suffers from an adverse effect (or even dies) fourteen days after receiving a vaccine, is considered to be “unvaccinated”.
Yes, please read that again. Talk about moving the goal-posts.
(You may thank the lovely Gailina for bringing this to my attention.)
If it’s after 21 days, they won’t even consider linking it to the “jab” because, with a vaccine, you see the problems within days. The problem is THIS IS NOT A VACCINE. It’s not like anything we’ve ever done before. It’s writing instructions in your cells to create pathogens. The spike isn’t COVID but they sure can get stuck in things (like getting stuck in the capilaries).
I have come to ask the question how many people in public life have we seen either die of Covid or seriously hospitalized? Take like the House of Reps 430 members most of whom look more like Nancy Pelosi rather than AOC I’d say it’s none, nobody. How about Senate? 100 “guys” even older nobody. Governors Mayors Supervisors Council People Health officials across the Nation thousands of people how many? If anyone, it would be “in the news,” definitely but you never hear. Ok, celebrities? Athletes, they breathe directly into each others faces? Nobody nothing no one, Pelosi Newsom Whitmer and all the rest they always cheat on their own mandates Nancy mostly only wears Hermes scarf for cameras its been over a year and half and …. Ok, maybe there is a name out there but in general all the demographics I’ve laid out here pretty much no one has either died of Covid or even been seriously (intubated) hospitalized, virtually no one.
The only one I can think of is former presidential candidate Herman Cain, who was already in very poor health before getting COVID.
I am very happy to see these testimonies of our saints and prophets. I am terribly saddened by the stance of our churches who believe the false science and false testimonies of big Pharma and big media over the testimonies of a very saints they profess to be saints. How can this be and how can the church not have lost their way in so deciding? Pfizer was penalized for the greatest medical fraud in American history in 2009, from that went all the way back into the 1990s and before. Have they changed their ways now? Do not our Bishops and Metropolitan’s understand that the dark corruption at the heart of the world is Satan, who is inspiring this world genocide in order to remake life in his synthetic image. . I guess they do not know that at the very heart of world power is the worship of Lucifer through the illuminati. This is spoken of by the Saints but I guess it is below the Synods to consider such things. Why is that? It is because it has been ridiculed by the world. We need to get past that ridicule order to find the truth. How can it be that those who pursue the Lord Jesus Christ, who is the truth itself, can fall for such a deception especially having been warned emphatically in the book of revelations and in Matthew? We are to be watching! With all due love and respect to our ecclesial authorities.
For every person that has died or suffered greatly from covid, there is another who has experienced the same with the jab. This simply becomes an anecdotal tit for tat. One person compared it to playing Russian roulette with 2 bullets. Either way you go, there is risk, medically speaking.
I respect doctors, their knowledge base, and what they have to endure to get their degrees. However, we are free individuals who have the right to reject any medical procedure for any reason. That is what they are trying to take from us. Why now? Why this? Why have there been a hundred diseases over the last few years that could kill us or do irrevocable harm, and yet we have never seen the propaganda train in motion like we have with this shot? I can hardly turn on my TV or a Youtube video without seeing an advertisement about how getting the shot is the responsible thing to do for ourselves and others especially? Where is all this love of neighbor coming from? In everything else, it’s “treat yourself,” “do what’s right for you,” “love yourself,” etc. For 50 years we’ve heard the mantra justifying abortion: “my body, my choice.” And now, where is that argument in regard to masks and injections?
Another angle I’ve considered for months is what have the Hollywood elite said in this regard? It’s the same ol’ “fall in line, follow the science, let’s all do our part, blah blah blah.” Have we, as Orthodox Christians in particular, not figured out by now that if we’re hearing a message consistently from that area of our social map it’s probably not what we should be doing? These people stand for everything that we as Orthodox Christians know to be wrong, if not downright fowl. Not to mention the fact that they are unapologetic hypocrites who preach tolerance for every belief under the sun, but will “cancel” you at the drop of a dime for not agreeing with their positions.
This whole thing is a power grab, plain and simple. It is a preparation for the reign of antichrist, a kingdom of subdued, obedient zombies who will take the mark of the beast readily to maintain a life of comfort. We are already seeing the beginnings of this. How many did no research, or just did not care about the possible repercussions of the jab before they took it, just so they could “return to normal life” or stop having to wear the mask?
And this has been one of the most concerning things about the response of most of our hierarchs. How do they not see this? My guess is that for all of their many sacrifices in some areas, they, like us, have become far too comfortable in this world. The Apostles lived everyday in the sincere belief that Christ could/would return at any time. I think after enough years went by, we began to become like those Christ spoke of: “the Master is delaying in His coming,” and we begin to abuse our fellow servants, not realizing the Master is coming at a time we do not expect. We’re at the end, guys. Let’s take the hint.
RE: Tit for Tat
COVID is 99.97% survivable. Unfortunately, we can’t say that about the vaccine????
We’re writing a piece about why doctors wouldn’t know how to advise you about COVID or the vaccines. Not their fault.
Gail,
I understand that covid is very much survivable and treatable. All I was trying to say is that with many people, you can’t have a coherent discussion. It’s already become an emotional issue. I can talk about my brother-in-law who had it, and had rough, flu-ish couple weeks, but came out of it and is fine. But the person I’m talking to will break out their sibling or cousin that got it and for whom it was much more serious. Or how they have a grandparent that died from it, etc. Statistics mean nothing to people when they have a sad story to tell. They don’t care about the millions that have survived, or even the millions that had virtually no symptoms. All they care about is the one person they love that had a rough go of it and they are ready and willing to mask up, vax up, and ask for your freedoms to be set aside so they can justify it.
I do understand.
“the millions that have survived”
Millions survived bubonic plague. So?
I do not get this “logic”.
Actually, it’s numbers that are driving all this nonsense. If millions and millions survive, why do we need a vaccine?
Look at the CDC stats over the last 7 days. Logically, does it make sense to take a vaccine?
CDC = 7 DAY DEATH RATE PER 100,000 = 2.4 https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_deathsper100klast7days
“These people stand for everything that we as Orthodox Christians know to be wrong, if not downright fowl. ”
Rejection of anti COVID vaccination is not a dogma. It is merely a wide spread opinion (also among some fundamentalist Protestants), that I do not share. Metropolitan Hilarion is right.
Let’s leave fundamental Protestants out of this discussion, can we? They’re no more relevant to this discussion than atheists and Satanists who, BTW, probably agree with you. Does that make you any less Orthodox? No. Just like Protestants who agree with us don’t make us wrong.
“They’re no more relevant to this discussion than atheists and Satanists”
Actually they are. I have impression that fundamentalist Protestantism influence opinions of some Orthodox here. Same way with influence by Rush Limbaugh, neocons, neoliberals and right wing Republicans. Is it any better than following liberal Democrats or other American political party?
“Thou shalt not turn aside from any of the commandments, which I charge thee this day, to the right hand or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.”
Most of Orthodox around me got vaccinated and I do not consider them stupid. I personally could be wrong in matters of vaccination, but I consider it a practical and scientific question, not religious one.
I would prefer if more topics were about the, well, fundamentals of the Faith. Politics is important, but …
I think everyone has picked up on the fact that you think some of us are influenced by fundamentalist Protestantism, Rush Limbaugh (who is no longer), neocons, neoliberals, and right-wing Republicans. You’d be wrong, but you can think anything you want.
“Martin,” please forgive me if I bristle at your dismissive comment.
Your invocation of “fundamentalist Protestantism” is a typical smear tactic by leftist Orthodox imbued with mainline non-Orthodox religions in America. A university professor addressing the COVID-19 vaccine issue has hurled that invective (together with another one: “schismatic”) against my esteemed fellow Orthodox priest and scholar, Archpriest Peter Heers.
The same fellow suggested to me in a personal telephone call that I seemed “too Scholastic and rationalist” to him–that is, too influenced by the Roman Catholic moral theology of Thomas Aquinas in the 13th century and the scholastic theological tradition that prevailed in the Roman Catholic communion until the middle of the 20th century,
I trust the vast majority of readers of this blog–and, of course, the editors–to discern whose perspectives and analyses may be tainted by Protestant, Roman Catholic, or modernist heresies, whether theological or moral.
Archpriest Alexander F. C. Webster “Your invocation of “fundamentalist Protestantism” is a typical smear tactic by leftist Orthodox imbued with mainline non-Orthodox religions in America.”
Dear Father, I respect you very much, and I am not a “leftist Orthodox imbued with mainline non-Orthodox religions in America”.
I remind you all, that I mentioned also “Rush Limbaugh, neocons, neoliberals and right wing Republicans”.
It is true that I tend to be left-wing on the issues of social justice and that I abhor predatory capitalism. I think that in the Church there is a place for people with various political views.
Returning to the anti-COVID vaccination, I accept unlikely possibility that it is some type of a hoax, still I decided to get vaccinated as most of people around me. If I see some sound arguments I might change my opinion. None was so far presented here.
Keep watching. . .
“It is true that I tend to be left-wing on the issues of social justice and that I abhor predatory capitalism. I think that in the Church there is a place for people with various political views.”
The number of political views seem to be shrinking down to two, do whatever is required to acquire and keep a vaccine/health passport, or refuse.
“Most of Orthodox around me got vaccinated and I do not consider them stupid. I personally could be wrong in matters of vaccination, but I consider it a practical and scientific question, not religious one.”
Martin Don’t Go to the Supermarket Today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lknW2mzXMMY
“without a [vaccine/health passport] there’s no way to pay”
RE: “It is true that I tend to be left-wing on the issues of social justice and that I abhor predatory capitalism. I think that in the Church there is a place for people with various political views.”
Martin, in America (so far) you are quite free to express any “political” views you desire. But in the Holy Orthodox Church certain “political” views–which term, I gather, you would apply to abortion–are not simply political but cross the line into moral heresy. Any Orthodox Christian who supports the so-called “right” to abortion or, worse, regards abortion as a neutral or acceptable moral choice is not acting in concert with the traditional Orthodox moral opposition to abortion dating back to the unanimous, explicit testimony of the Church Fathers since the early second century AD.
Abortion is morally wrong (with exception of certain limited situations).
But vaccination against COVID is not wrong.
And as I said. I consider position of Metropolitan Hilarion correct on both issues:
https://www.rt.com/russia/527788-orthodox-church-abortion-rape/
Now, when I said that I tend to be left wing on matters of social justice, I meant similar issues that were in mind of FDR Democrats – reduction of inequality, providing safety net and preventing evolution of society into Wellsian two races of Eloi and Morloks
“But vaccination against COVID is not wrong.
“And as I said. I consider position of Metropolitan Hilarion correct on both issues”
You and Met. Hilarion are clueless, “vaccination against COVID is not wrong,” that’s like saying, “sex isn’t wrong,” while watching a gang raping unfold. Whole nations, entire continents are being held hostage.
Martin, speaking for myself, that’s a simplistic polemic against those of us who are critical of the present political, spiritual and intellectual regimes.
The malaise that exists at present is a result of the collapse of several of the ideological systems which you describe (and which many of us –myself included–had subscribed to at one time).
Being fallen beings, we are trapped in our present milieu and thus fall prey to biases (such as confirmation and normalcy biases). That doesn’t mean though that eternal truths do not exist. Nor does it mean that we should cling to the former, outdated narrative merely to be consistent. Especially if the newer narrative is more congruent with the facts on the ground.
I realize that sounds opportunistic and self-serving. But let’s look at it this way: Patriarch Bartholomew still clings to the globalist paradigm even though the realities have changed (often dramatically). Would it be right then to keep on holding on to the illusion of “New Rome” (among other things)? I think not.
And so, to the extent that “fundamentalist Protestants” and others have stumbled onto the present reality and are traveling in congruent paths with those of us who are also doing so, then it means nothing to tar Orthodox Christians who say the same thing as non-Orthodox. Truth is the truth.
Global warming was –and is–a hoax. The present hysteria associated with the Corona virus may be as well. The way one can tell is by looking at the verbiage and whether it is constantly changing. If it is, then you know that we are dealing not with facts on the ground, but ideology.
The simplest way I can put this is that in true science, you go where the facts lead you.
My favorite saying: If it’s true in the beginning, it remains true.
I am also against “critical of the present political, spiritual and intellectual regimes.” But on matters of COVID vaccination I claim the right to disagree with you. I have some education and experience with medical research, and I hope I am not stupid.
On the issue of bird flu and supposed anthropogenic character of “climate change” I agree with you. Climate changes all the time, like weather. My bet is that the chance for global warming is about 50% same with global cooling. It would be nice though if excessive burning of fuels and cow’s farts could stop coming of the next ice age 😉
Martin: “Rejection of anti COVID
vaccination is not a dogma.”
Neither is acceptance of the same…
“Neither is acceptance of the same…”
Exactly 🙂
“you think some of us are influenced by fundamentalist Protestantism, Rush Limbough…”
Sorry, it is what I think (:
I like more what Metropolitan Hillarion says.
Oh, then what was your point of using the word Protestantism?
Interesting excerpt I just encountered from the end of the book Eternity in the Moment: The Life and Wisdom of Elder Arsenie Papacioc: (Of Romania, reposed in 2011)
“During this time (*End of 2004 I believe) there was a major campaign against bird flu in Romania. Doctors would constantly wear surgical masks to protect themselves against it. Some people would even wear them on the street. A doctor advised Fr. Arsenie to wear one also, being vulnerable because of the great number of people coming to see him. (*He was 90 years old and suffering frequently from various health problems and weaknesses). “Doctor, how am I going to wear a mask when I always tell the people to take their mask off [that is, to be honest]?” And he did not wear one. Fathers encouragement, “Take off the mask!” was a call to sincerity, to knowing your own self. He had this gift of perceiving the “mask” on people’s faces, a sensitivity he had acquired through a remarkable spiritual life.”
pg. 256-257
* Comment added by me for clarification
Yet one more God-bearing Elder of modern times we can draw from for guidance under similar circumstances.
That you for this submission, Gabriel.
No problem. Probably more relevant to other posts, but interesting nonetheless!
Hi
Here in Australia the hospitals are reporting people dying from “covid” but in fact they are dying from either the shot or other underlying health issues fact from their families. In saying that they have tested positive to covid but dying of other illnesses.
The hospitals, TGA and all are making up numbers every day.
Medical centres and hospitals are refusing entry to families who are unvaccinated even if their child is unwell due to high fevers etc.
People who have taken the shot and end up in hospital from the shot are given ivermectin, and those who have symptoms of covid and are unvaccinated are being put on ventilators or sent home.
Why is this? To make ppl believe that the shot works, which in fact doesn’t.
Ive heard of alot of stories from ppl here in Sydney who a family member took the shot and spread covid to every person in the family, or shed resulting in their children getting sick ie breathing problems, bleeding, high fevers etc.
This Agenda is evil alot of ppl are still not awake to see what is really happening.
It saddens me to see so many ppl taking the shot just to get their freedoms and go to shopping centres and pubs etc.
There is a minority of us who is trying to spread the truth about what is really going on. There are currently over 300 court cases against the health minister and his clan. Our churches still closed, massive segregation has occurred with the unvaccinated and vaccinated, it’s tearing families apart.
The health minister even said it themselves the vaccine will not stop transmission or catching the virus but will prevent death!!
Ever since the distribution of the shot more ppl have died from it than of covid in the space of 3 months. What does that tell you.
My brother is at Vatopedi, Fr Parthenios sending my love.
There is always hope God and the saints won’t leave their ppl. Like we say here
#holdtheline.
Elpida,
May Christ our true God bless and keep you and all the suffering faithful in Australia and throughout the world.