famous composers have admired Gregorian Chant
  • Geremia
    Posts: 261
    from O’Brien, J. (1881). A History of the Mass and Its Ceremonies in the Eastern and Western Church (p. 80). New York: The Catholic Publication Society Co.:
    The merits of the Gregorian Chant are known to all; and who that has ever heard it rendered as it should be will not say that it has a divine influence over the soul? If St. Augustine wept upon hearing the Ambrosian Chant, many more recent than he have wept, too, upon hearing the simple but soul-stirring strains of the pure Gregorian. The Venerable Bede, for example, tells us how deeply affected St. Cuthbert used to be when chanting the Preface, so much so that his sobbing could be heard through the entire congregation; and, as he raised his hands on high at the “Sursum corda,” his singing was rather a sort of solemn moaning than anything else (Vita S. Cuthbert, cap. xvi.). The renowned Haydn was often moved to tears at listening to the children of the London charity schools sing the psalms together in unison according to the Gregorian style; and the great master of musicians and composers, Mozart, went so far as to say that he would rather be the author of the Preface and Pater Noster, according to the same style, than of anything he had ever written. These are but a few of the numerous encomiums passed upon this sacred chant by men who were so eminently qualified to constitute themselves judges.
  • ZacPB189ZacPB189
    Posts: 70
    Resphigi seems to have had a fondness himself, including Sanctus IX in Pines of Rome and centering the St. Gregory movement of Church Windows around the Missa di Angelis Gloria.
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  • Geremia
    Posts: 261
    Yes! I certainly hear it, especially in the brass, of the 2nd movement, "Pines Near a Catacomb."
    And Respighi's Church Windows's "St. Gregory" movement has an organ playing the Gloria, and it concludes with the brass prominently playing it, too! ☺
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  • Geremia
    Posts: 261
    … the Suite (originally Symphony) in E (1903), in which distinctive Respighian phraseology is often foreshadowed. Here, as in Christus [composed at age 19], there are occasional signs that he was responsive to Gregorian chant long before he met his future wife, despite her oft-quoted claim that it was she who first induced him to study plainsong systematically.
    Vetrate di chiesa, though it too is colourful and ostensibly pictorial, consists largely of orchestral amplifications of the abstract Tre preludi sopra melodie gregoriane for piano (1919–21).

    The best known of the overtly abstract compositions whose use of plainsong-like material followed on from the Tre preludi is the Concerto gregoriano for violin and orchestra (1921), whose central movement features the familiar Easter sequence Victimae paschali. Elsewhere in the work the allusions to plainchant are more fleeting and disguised; the quasi-pastoral result parallels some of the more calmly modal music of Vaughan Williams. Likewise pervaded by freely plainsong-like themes are the long and rather diffuse Concerto in modo misolidio for piano and orchestra (1925), and the more impressive Quartetto dorico (1924), in which predominantly modal material is put to richly varied uses within a seemingly rhapsodic yet thematically unified single movement structure.
    in Maria egiziaca – originally designed for small-scale, semi-staged presentation in the concert hall but thereafter performed quite often in Italian opera houses – he matched Guastalla’s self-consciously archaic libretto with austerely evocative music in which Gregorian, Renaissance and Monteverdian influences are evident, alongside others of more recent origin.
    (source)

    Arvo Pärt also studied Gregorian chant:
    After Credo Pärt reached an impasse both musically and professionally. For several years (from 1968) he concentrated on exploring tonal monody and simple two-part counterpoint in exercises inspired by his studies of early music and Gregorian chant. During this period he produced two works (Laul armastatule – subsequently withdrawn – and the Third Symphony) which reveal the strength of these preoccupations. It was only in 1976, however, that he began to compose fluidly again, this time using a tonal technique of his own creation which he calls ‘tintinnabuli’ (after the bell-like resemblance of notes in a triad). The first piece to be written in this new style was the short piano solo Für Alina.
    The majority of Pärt’s works composed after 1980 are for chorus or small vocal ensemble; his choice of texts has ranged from Latin (which predominated at first) to German, Church Slavonic, Spanish, Italian and English. Among the larger works mention should be made of Te Deum which invokes – but does not in fact use – Gregorian chant; Stabat mater, in essence an extended piece of chamber music for double trio (three strings and three voices); Miserere which incorporates an earlier setting (here revised) of the Dies irae sequence; two a cappella choral works, the (Latin) Magnificat and the (German) Seven Magnificat Antiphons; and Litany (1994), the first work since the Third Symphony to employ something approaching a full orchestra; and Kanon Pokajanen, a large-scale a cappella setting of Russian Orthodox texts.
    (source)
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  • dad29
    Posts: 2,217
    IIRC, Hindemith observed that 'Chant is the foundation for all Western music'.
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  • ZacPB189ZacPB189
    Posts: 70
    Armenian Chant was a big influence on Alan Hovhannes's style, though I don't think he quoted any directly.
  • And let us not forget Paul Creston.
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  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    This is absolutely true, almost without exception: every major composer in the history of Western music has admired, adored, and even based entire works off of Gregorian chant melodies.
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  • I love Hindemith more and more.
    Libby Larsen has made wonderful comments about Gregorian chant.

    And who composed the recent opera, Murder in the Cathedral? Liturgical chants were directly quoted, and at length. I seem to remember Introit snippets from St. Stephen Martyr, St. John the Evangelist, and Holy Innocents...
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,388
    Ah, yes, Ildebrando Pizzetti's Assassinio nella Cattedrale (Murder in the Cathedral). Great use of a few recognizable chants and lots of modalism.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cxXfD_3ACk
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,388
    @MaryAnn Carr Wilson:

    MANY thanks for your mention of the Pizzetti opera! I was not aware of it, and my discovery of it last night was a wonderful experience. Were you aware of the opera before the San Diego Opera produced it this past April?

    Anyone who watches the Youtube video, I'll give you a free copy of the great new bilingual hymnal Oramos Cantando / We Pray in Song if you are able to come up with what is the most anachronistic element in the staging.
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,184
    A period in which Gregorian chant was especially influential is the early 1900s to about 1950 in France. From Widor's Symphony 9 ("Gothique") all the way until VII, Gregorian chant influenced a whole group of composers: Widor,Tournemire,Durufle, Langlais,Fleury,Messiaen,etc. Chant accompanying and conducting was part of the Conservatoire curriculum. Chant based works were part of the compositional oeuvre.
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  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    if you are able to come up with what is the most anachronisic element in the staging.


    The fact that it was posted to YouTube?
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  • Fr. Ron- I was only aware of it because I have several friends who sing with SDO.
    Anachronisms.... going only by the staging I can remember, it seemed vestments were out of place... maniples utilized as decoration... maniples at all... am I close??

    And had the Holy Innocents made it on to the calendar by Becket's time?

    Fwiw, I really enjoyed the music of the opera, and especially the dramatic scene that centered on Becket's inner turmoil. The staging often struck me as overly pious, sometimes having a holy card quality to it. Still, I receive things aurally first of all, so the music trumped the visual for me.
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,388
    @Mary Ann: I don't know how true to life the vestments are in the video production. However, it appears that the SDO did a great deal of research into the vestments they created for their recent production, studying in particular a chasuble actually worn by Becket that is in the Treasury of the Cathedral of Sens, France. No, the vestments are not the glaring anachronism in the YouTube video.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,768
    The Dies irae is somewhat later than 1170.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    Richard's answer is better than my second guess, which was going to be the haircuts.
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,388
    Richard Mix is correct that the Dies irae had not been written yet in 1170, but my challenge concerns "the most anachronistic element in the staging" of the opera.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    The 'congregation' sit with their backs to the altar?
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  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    then I'm back to the haircuts
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  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    (can you give us a hint? i'm so curious now....)
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    The staging often struck me as overly pious, sometimes having a holy card quality to it. (emph added)


    I think that's actually appropriate- sort of a theatrical caricature of liturgy, which is perfect for opera, I think.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    also- wouldn't the nuns have been behind a grate or somethng?
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  • the most anachronistic element in the staging.


    I'm virtually ignorant when it comes to architectural history, but would there have been a baldacchino over the altar in 1170 England?
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    Rosaries hadn't been invented yet...
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    56:28
    iPhones hadn't been invented either.
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,388
    Adam, you win.

    Those aren't intended to be nuns in the opera. They are lay women of Canterbury and they function as a Greek chorus of sorts in the opera. Two of them have major singing roles. One sings an aria while clutching a rosary.

    There were strings of "prayer beads" by the year 1170 but no 5- or 15-decade rosaries.
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  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    well... i already have a copy of Oramos Cantando / We Pray in Song.
    Maybe you could put me on the list to get a free keyboard edition when it comes out...
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  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,768
    The rood screen is missing too.
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  • Ha! The production I saw last season did not use a rosary, iirc. I think I would have caught that anachronism. Yes, prayer beads but no rosaries as we recognize them today.

    Funny how often Catholics, perhaps especially women, are pictured clutching rosaries in their hands during times of trouble.
  • The merits of the Gregorian Chant are known to all; and who that has ever heard it rendered as it should be will not say that it has a divine influence over the soul?


    If this is true (certainly was for me!), why is GC, or beautiful sacred music for that matter not more widely promoted or appreciated? Why do so many parishes choose "Glory and Praise" music over the beautiful sacred?
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  • dad29
    Posts: 2,217
    Britten's War Requiem is certainly loaded with modality, right from the start.

    And the Dies Irae motif he uses is distinctly a play on the Chant Dies Irae tune.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    re: Dies Irae
    cf: Stephen Sondheim's best score
    ( @ 2:45)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LAFGRlfMqQ
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  • dad29
    Posts: 2,217
    The Latin Liturgy Ass'n had been keeping track of Dies Irae quotes in 'secular' music and was in the high 80's about 10 years ago.

    The theme is also present, briefly, in the first violins when daddy-lion gets killed in "The Lion King" movie.
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  • Spriggo
    Posts: 122
    The Latin Liturgy Ass'n had been keeping track of Dies Irae quotes in 'secular' music and was in the high 80's about 10 years ago.


    Here's my favorite:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgCejsyS0t8
  • Geremia
    Posts: 261
    @Spriggo: Which Dies Iræ is it? thanks
  • Spriggo
    Posts: 122
    Wendy Carlos' score for "The Shining" is partially based on the Gregorian Dies Irae:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlr90NLDp-0
  • Geremia
    Posts: 261
    Arvo Pärt also studied Gregorian chant:
    After Credo Pärt reached an impasse both musically and professionally. For several years (from 1968) he concentrated on exploring tonal monody and simple two-part counterpoint in exercises inspired by his studies of early music and Gregorian chant. During this period he produced two works (Laul armastatule – subsequently withdrawn – and the Third Symphony) which reveal the strength of these preoccupations. It was only in 1976, however, that he began to compose fluidly again, this time using a tonal technique of his own creation which he calls ‘tintinnabuli’ (after the bell-like resemblance of notes in a triad). The first piece to be written in this new style was the short piano solo Für Alina.
    The majority of Pärt’s works composed after 1980 are for chorus or small vocal ensemble; his choice of texts has ranged from Latin (which predominated at first) to German, Church Slavonic, Spanish, Italian and English. Among the larger works mention should be made of Te Deum which invokes – but does not in fact use – Gregorian chant; Stabat mater, in essence an extended piece of chamber music for double trio (three strings and three voices); Miserere which incorporates an earlier setting (here revised) of the Dies irae sequence; two a cappella choral works, the (Latin) Magnificat and the (German) Seven Magnificat Antiphons; and Litany (1994), the first work since the Third Symphony to employ something approaching a full orchestra; and Kanon Pokajanen, a large-scale a cappella setting of Russian Orthodox texts.
    (source)
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    It's interesting that one of the most used Gregorian themes, Dies Irae, has been used by so many composers. Now, it has disappeared from the current liturgy. An entire generation or more has no idea what it even is.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    I am a composer (not particularly famous) that certainly admires, promotes and lauds GC.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    Frankly, I don't see how any serious composer could NOT spend at least some time and energy in Gregorian Chant. It is the starting point of the entire Western classical musical tradition.
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  • Another "Dies Irae" quotation is used in Rachmaninov's symphonic work "Isle of the Dead".

    No one has yet mentioned Flor Peeters. It was told to me by one of his former students that frequently Peeters would improvise at the organ for prelude and postlude on some of the chants of the day.
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  • Geremia
    Posts: 261
    @Unda_Maris: Yes, I was just going to post about Rachmaninov's Isle of the Dead. I heard this on the radio, and something certainly did sound familiar about it!


    There's also Berlioz's Symphonie fantastique, Op. 14 (movement V):


    And Rachmaninov's Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini, which also includes the Dies Iræ plainchant. See this page for an excellent compilation of how the Dies Iræ theme appears in several famous compositions; it even has videos of excerpts of the scores, with audio.
  • I'm an instrumental composer and I am very much in love with the idea of using Chant as a building block in [secular/concert] compositions. (With Sacred works, it's an obvious must, but setting text is not something I enjoy doing myself at all.) In a sonata I composed for trumpet and organ, I have an "Ostrowskian" chant section (it's one movement, but in four distinct sections). It's not based on anything and is thus original, but it's from my sophmore/junior years in college, when I first learned of CCW's existence, so I had to start somewhere, haha. I've also used hymn-tunes, "Slane" in a fantasia for Saxophone (or Flute) and Piano, and Ellecombe in a short "fanfare" for Trumpet and Organ. In the process of doing the Ellecombe piece, I discovered that it's actually a tune of Catholic origin that was first a Marian hymn and then later a hymn to the Blessed Sacrament (both German, but that tune never sounded English to begin with).

    I know Hindemith was mentioned, but his students Genzmer and Bertold Hummel deserve a mention, too. Bruckner uses Psalm tones to open his "Te Deum", and his motets are very grounded in Palestrinian polyphony. The organist/composer Hermann Schroeder used chant and old pre-reformation German tunes in some of his organ works. American composer Howard Hanson was also a user of chant/chant-like material in his works.
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  • @Unda_Maris: Yes, I was just going to post about Rachmaninov's Isle of the Dead.


    ...in 2013, when the comment was made, and now having escaped from under the heavy furniture you were trapped under....?

    just pulling your leg. Interesting posting actually.
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  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    TWO YEARS
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    And what a two years it was!
  • Thanked by 1Salieri
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    (Interesting that since the period (.) has come to be used by many people to signify a deleted post, the originator of that trend has moved on to the yellow square.)
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    (Interesting that since the period (.) has come to be used by many people to signify a deleted post, the originator of that trend has moved on to the yellow square.)


    I wonder if that yellow square is something of a cultic talisman or identifier. What think ye?