Resurgence of Pachamama worship in the Church

After seven years of the Bergoglian pontificate: The Jesuits celebrate Pachamama Day The Vatican issues Pachamama coin This is the worship of demons in the high places Where is the outrage in the Church …More
After seven years of the Bergoglian pontificate:
The Jesuits celebrate Pachamama Day
The Vatican issues Pachamama coin
This is the worship of demons in the high places
Where is the outrage in the Church that Jesuits and the Vatican are officially promoting the veneration of Pachamama?
Where are the bishops? The priests? The deacons?
Their silence makes the whole institutional Church complicit
Where are the disciples of Elijah to bring God's justice to Ahab?
la verdad prevalece
Ultraviolet lives in the post-Truth era and he maliciously believes he has the right to deny facts.
la verdad prevalece
I do not know if that account belongs to the moderator Anthony Principe who has maliciously also had the audacity to deny the dogma of Hell and the prophecy of La Salette. Both use the same modus operandi of trolls.
la verdad prevalece
It is a waste of time trying to prove the facts because Ultraviolet would ridicule them and attack whoever dares to oppose him especially if someone does not speak English.
Alex A
@la verdad prevalence> Ah diddums. Need a Tissue 😭 Why are you playing the race card then?
dpfurey
"Their silence makes the whole institutional Church complicit"
Yep. Sure does.More
"Their silence makes the whole institutional Church complicit"

Yep. Sure does.
Ultraviolet
@V.R.S. I already addressed this using an English translation of the text. You need to explain how time and the universe are the same as the earth Maybe wikipedia will help you. :D.i.e. choosing one translation while deliberately excluding all the rest which contradict it (and each other). "The name Pachamama is translated into English as Mother Earth since pacha is a word in both Quechua and …More
@V.R.S. I already addressed this using an English translation of the text. You need to explain how time and the universe are the same as the earth Maybe wikipedia will help you. :D.i.e. choosing one translation while deliberately excluding all the rest which contradict it (and each other). "The name Pachamama is translated into English as Mother Earth since pacha is a word in both Quechua and Aymara that means earth, cosmos, universe, time, space, etc. in English and mama means "mother."

It's gotten buried, but that's only because petty creatures like @San Atanasio derive some infantile pleasure in "blocking" me while endlessly replying. :P

To recap... Pachamama also means "cosmos mother" and "universe mother" and "time mother" and "space mother" and "etc. mother". In short, it means numerous contradictory concepts. Time is not space, neither time nor space is the earth. How sloppy. Latin is a bit more precise.

Earth mother and Mother Earth are not the same. Likewise...

"Terra "-Earth
"Universum" -Universe
"Tempus" -Time
"Locus" -Space

"Cosmos" isn't Latin, it's Greek and refers to the order of the universe (as opposed to chaos). Then there's the small matter of iconography. The Vatican's "Mother Earth" coin simply doesn't have a direct parallel with traditional Andean depictions of Pachamama.
Ultraviolet
You can't speak latin @San Atanasio, so posting Latin prayers in all bold brands you pretentious, sanctimonious fraud. Nice faux-Catholic virtue signalling. Protip: Archbishop Fulton Sheen had a degree in canon law and another in philosophy. Abp Sheen was not psychiatrist nor did he conduct any studies on the psychological basis of arrogance. In my case, arrogance is a manifestation of pride …More
You can't speak latin @San Atanasio, so posting Latin prayers in all bold brands you pretentious, sanctimonious fraud. Nice faux-Catholic virtue signalling. Protip: Archbishop Fulton Sheen had a degree in canon law and another in philosophy. Abp Sheen was not psychiatrist nor did he conduct any studies on the psychological basis of arrogance. In my case, arrogance is a manifestation of pride based on consistent and repeated success, exactly what's happening all over the comments section of this post to your considerable and increasing chagrin.

Soo... even here ya' blew it! Enjoy. Your Fallacy Is:
One more comment from Ultraviolet
Ultraviolet
@San Atanasio el Stupido Nice upgrade with FALSE IN ALL CAPS BOLD AND RED. You're not going to find an inidigenously crafted representation of Pachamama with a globe.Stone age savages didn't have maps of the planet. Doubtful they even knew it was round, much less what was on it.
"Likewise, a naked woman with a child in her womb is not a clothed woman with a globe in her womb". = FALSE
Can …More
@San Atanasio el Stupido Nice upgrade with FALSE IN ALL CAPS BOLD AND RED. You're not going to find an inidigenously crafted representation of Pachamama with a globe.Stone age savages didn't have maps of the planet. Doubtful they even knew it was round, much less what was on it.

"Likewise, a naked woman with a child in her womb is not a clothed woman with a globe in her womb". = FALSE

Can you even read English without a translation program? An infant is the same as a globe? Naked is the same as clothed? Tell that one to Adam and Eve. MFW pic related.

Which is why none of your "Pachamama" images fit the criteria of the Vatican's "Mother Earth" Very important that. This isn't any old "Mother Earth". This is the Vatican's depiction. An indigenously crafted representation must conform to that and no other. None of your images qualify.. Upper Left and Right. No globe, no wheat, no pregnancy. Lower Left: No pregancy, no wheat. Lower Right: No wheat, no globe.

Also, please use only images of crafts you can show are produced by indigenous Andean people not referencing modern sources. Otherwise you could draw the darn picture yourself and say it's from a genuine "Latin American artist" :D :D. Ethnography doesn't work that way. Still waiting.... ;-)
San Atanasio ora pro nobis
@Ultraviolet Vade retro satana Nunquam suade mihi vana Sut mala quae libas Ipse venena bibas
San Atanasio ora pro nobis
As Archbishop Fulton John Sheen said that “Arrogance is the manifestation of weakness, the secret fear towards rivals.”
V.R.S.
Yes, he is that arrogant & ignorant:
"First, he's Padre Lira, a Catholic priest who was an expert on the folklore of the Andes, as well as a linguist, scholar, and author. Guess which source has more authority on Latin American language and etymology, hmm?"
"He's a British journalist who focuses on environmental topics. He's not a Latin American nor an expert on the Quechua language. Padre Jorge …More
Yes, he is that arrogant & ignorant:

"First, he's Padre Lira, a Catholic priest who was an expert on the folklore of the Andes, as well as a linguist, scholar, and author. Guess which source has more authority on Latin American language and etymology, hmm?"
"He's a British journalist who focuses on environmental topics. He's not a Latin American nor an expert on the Quechua language. Padre Jorge A Lira is both."
----

OK, we have here in fact argumentum ad wikipediam 😬, then - lets quote the Spanish one:

"Pacha Mama significa Madre Tierra:

pacha, un término aimara y quechua, significa ‘tierra, mundo, universo, tiempo, época’.8

pacha kununuy (‘temblor de tierra con fuerte ruido’).9

pachamit'a (‘parte del tiempo’, cada una de las cuatro estaciones en que se divide un año).

pacha k'anchay (‘luz del mundo’, la luz solar).

mama: "madre""

and what's the source of such translation? 😂

Yes it's our dear, beloved Padre Lira and his Spanish Dictionary:
8 LIRA, Jorge A. (1944): Diccionario kkechuwa-español (volumen II). Tucumán (Argentina): sin editorial, pág. 719.
Ultraviolet
Another news article San Atanasio? About climate change? Such a scholarly source! :P You really can't find anything bette, can you?. Please quote, verbatim, where your article says "Mother Earth" is the same as Pachamama. Then show why John Vidal is academically qualified to make such a claim.
He's a British journalist who focuses on environmental topics. He's not a Latin American nor an expert …More
Another news article San Atanasio? About climate change? Such a scholarly source! :P You really can't find anything bette, can you?. Please quote, verbatim, where your article says "Mother Earth" is the same as Pachamama. Then show why John Vidal is academically qualified to make such a claim.

He's a British journalist who focuses on environmental topics. He's not a Latin American nor an expert on the Quechua language. Padre Jorge A Lira is both.

Also explain, if "Mother Earth" is Pachamama, why didn't Boliva call the law "Ley de Derechos de la Pachamama"?

Since you've brought up Bolivia, here's something a bit more relevant. This site
is every bit as general interest and unsourced as your news articles. At least it's Latin American AND Bolivian.

"The name Pachamama is translated into English as Mother Earth since pacha is a word in both Quechua and Aymara that means earth, cosmos, universe, time, space, etc. in English and mama means "mother."

So Pachamama also means "cosmos mother" and "universe mother" and "time mother" and "space mother" and "etc. mother". In short, today it means anything at all. How sloppy. Latin is a bit more precise.

Earth mother and Mother Earth are not the same. Likewise...

"Terra "-Earth
"Universum" -Universe
"Tempus" -Time
"Locus" -Space

"Cosmos" isn't Latin, it's Greek and refers to the order of the universe (as opposed to chaos). I'm still waiting for "Pachamama" with clothes, wheat in her hair annnnnnnnd a globe, too.. Gotta have the globe @San Stupido!
San Atanasio ora pro nobis
Again @Ultraviolet is acting like a Troll deflecting the subject. This is not a game of lose or win nor is it an English class, here it is about the truth or the lie and it is proven that the argument about the Pachamama @Ultraviolet gave is FALSE.
San Atanasio ora pro nobis
@Ultraviolet :"World Mother" is not "Mother Earth"= FALSE
@Ultraviolet :"Likewise, a naked woman with a child in her womb is not a clothed woman with a globe in her womb". = FALSE
Ultraviolet :
At the risk of repeating myself, "Mother Earth" isn't "Pachamama." The iconography of the pagan "Pachamama" diety never included clothes or wheat in its hair or had the globe of the earth as a pregnancy …More
@Ultraviolet :"World Mother" is not "Mother Earth"= FALSE
@Ultraviolet :"Likewise, a naked woman with a child in her womb is not a clothed woman with a globe in her womb". = FALSE

Ultraviolet :
At the risk of repeating myself, "Mother Earth" isn't "Pachamama." The iconography of the pagan "Pachamama" diety never included clothes or wheat in its hair or had the globe of the earth as a pregnancy. (doubtful the savages worshipping Pachamama knew the earth was a glob).
This might well be a different panthiest eco-diety, but it isn't Pachamama. = ALSO FALSE
Ultraviolet
No, I'm not "going around the bush" @San Atanasio I'm discrediting your source by exposing the author's lack of credentials. I'm also pointing out MY source beats yours as badly as I'm beating you right now. Protip: If you can speak English when it suits you, don't hide your remarks using Spanish. It's dishonest. It's also not going to work.
There's nothing racist about any of this, either. …More
No, I'm not "going around the bush" @San Atanasio I'm discrediting your source by exposing the author's lack of credentials. I'm also pointing out MY source beats yours as badly as I'm beating you right now. Protip: If you can speak English when it suits you, don't hide your remarks using Spanish. It's dishonest. It's also not going to work.

There's nothing racist about any of this, either. Except, of course YOU introducing it as a defense. That's very racist indeed. A certain kind of minority invariably resorts to this kind of accusation when they lose an argument: claiming the opposition is "racist". No surprise you're one of them. It's also an ad hominem argument since a racist can still be factually correct in spite of such a bias. You fail again, even on that.
San Atanasio ora pro nobis
@Ultraviolet La Biblia dice que los ignorantes cuando hablan anuncian su necedad y este es el caso de Ultraviolet cuando se ve perdido se va por las ramas.
San Atanasio ora pro nobis
But still he hates even Spanish language
Ultraviolet
You didn't check your source's credentials @San Atanasio. Unfortunately for you, I did. ;-) Mr. James Ingham has a BA in English and Drama from the University of Exeter 1992 -1995 and that's it.
By his own admission, Mr. Ingham has only a "Limited working proficiency" in Spanish.
Since I have to spell it out for you, A Batchelor of Arts degree in English and Drama does not qualify him to speak …More
You didn't check your source's credentials @San Atanasio. Unfortunately for you, I did. ;-) Mr. James Ingham has a BA in English and Drama from the University of Exeter 1992 -1995 and that's it.

By his own admission, Mr. Ingham has only a "Limited working proficiency" in Spanish.

Since I have to spell it out for you, A Batchelor of Arts degree in English and Drama does not qualify him to speak with any authority on Latin American language/ culture/ or religion. In fact, he can just barely speak the language at all.

...and THIS is your big expert. :P

In contrast, My source is a Wikipedia entry citing Lira, Jorge A (1944). Diccionario Kkechuwa - Español (in Spanish). Tucumán, Argentina.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pachamama

Let's talk about Jorge A. Lira. First, he's Padre Lira, a Catholic priest who was an expert on the folklore of the Andes, as well as a linguist, scholar, and author.

Guess which source has more authority on Latin American language and etymology, hmm?

1.) A Brit with a BA in English or drama with a "limited working proficiency in Spanish or a

2.) A Latin American Catholic priest who specialized in folklore, speaks Spanish perfectly and compiled a specialist dictionary on the Quecha language.

The ignorance here is yours. Speaking of which, "the Catholic faithful" acknowledge the authority of the Pope. You don't. Therefore you're neither Catholic nor faithful and the garbage you post either about the Pope or Pachamama isn't the truth.

Here's an idea... since you're online and usin' google 'n all, Post a photo of a traditional "Pachamama" statue wearing clothes, with wheat in its hair, and a globe in its belly.
Alex A
Here we go. Time to get the popcorn and other 'goodies' out. This should be another quality debate.
Ultraviolet
Me? vs.that clown San Atanasio Your charity does him far too much credit. Perhaps to my fault, I'm not that charitabl and, in truth, neither are they. Which is fine. People who go out of their way to brag about "Ignorance is bold" when they think they've got a solid argument deserve everything they get when it evaporates.
V.R.S.
"This should be another quality debate."
---
Rather: another Norse saga.More
"This should be another quality debate."
---

Rather: another Norse saga.
San Atanasio ora pro nobis
@Alex A Do not worry in this forum we have learned that you do not talk to fools that is why it says that trolls should not be fed but unfortunately for the honor of the Truth from time to time we have to put them in their place.
Ultraviolet
"for the honor of the Truth from time to time we have to put them in their place."
Still waiting to see you explain how a Brit with limited proficiency in Spanish is a better expert on the Quecha language and Pachamama than a Latin American Catholic priest who compiled a dictionary on the language and was a recognized expert in folklore.
"Look at these images of the Pachamama that denies what …More
"for the honor of the Truth from time to time we have to put them in their place."

Still waiting to see you explain how a Brit with limited proficiency in Spanish is a better expert on the Quecha language and Pachamama than a Latin American Catholic priest who compiled a dictionary on the language and was a recognized expert in folklore.

"Look at these images of the Pachamama that denies what @Ultraviolet says"

Where's the wheat? Where's the globe in the belly? Where's the traditional statue I asked for.? You haven't shown anything.

Headlines? That's your best source? Headlines of videos? Wow. Go ahead, Edit your post with more garbage. Why don't you trying discrediting Padre Jorge A. Lira the way I discredited your Brit?

Stil waiting, San Atanasio
San Atanasio ora pro nobis
Ignorance is bold, because it is also accompanied by arrogance and obstinacy in error. Ultraviolet is not only wrong but maliciously persecutes the Catholic faithful who defend the Truth.
San Atanasio ora pro nobis
«In the indigenous philosophy, the Pachamama is a living being.
The draft of the new law states: "She is sacred, fertile and the source of life that feeds and cares for all living beings in her womb. She is in permanent balance, harmony and communication with the cosmos. She is comprised of all ecosystems and living beings, and their self-organisation." theguardian.com/…nshrines-natural-worlds-…More
«In the indigenous philosophy, the Pachamama is a living being.
The draft of the new law states: "She is sacred, fertile and the source of life that feeds and cares for all living beings in her womb. She is in permanent balance, harmony and communication with the cosmos. She is comprised of all ecosystems and living beings, and their self-organisation." theguardian.com/…nshrines-natural-worlds-rights
San Atanasio ora pro nobis
Look at these images of the Pachamama that denies what @Ultraviolet says
V.R.S.
The Church has always fought with the Pachamama idolatry. Cf. for example:
books.google.co.uk/…to_the_Virgin_of_Copacaba.html=snippet&q=Pachamama&f=false
iwirawan
The narrative they are going to promote here is the earth is our mother, and probably the earth's mother is the Vatican with Bergoglio as it's head. That makes them like God. Who is like God?
The next they probably will copy the Catholic liturgy for us to worship them? What a mess!
Ultraviolet
From YOUR wiki source. @F M Shyanguya A more literal translation (of Pachamam) would be "World Mother" (in the Aymara and Quechua languages). "World Mother" is not "Mother Earth" and neither Aymaran nor Quechuan. is Latin.
Likewise, a naked woman with a child in her womb is not a clothed woman with a globe in her womb. Religious iconography exists for a reason.
Get a real computer with a proper …More
From YOUR wiki source. @F M Shyanguya A more literal translation (of Pachamam) would be "World Mother" (in the Aymara and Quechua languages). "World Mother" is not "Mother Earth" and neither Aymaran nor Quechuan. is Latin.

Likewise, a naked woman with a child in her womb is not a clothed woman with a globe in her womb. Religious iconography exists for a reason.

Get a real computer with a proper monitor and keyboard and try visiting the sites you're citing. :P
F M Shyanguya
How quickly people forget or things are coming at them so fast. Cf The Desolating Sacrilege at Holy Mass concluding the Pan-Amazon Synod of Bishops 2019-10-27: ‘let those who are in Rome flee to the mountains!’
Our “La Pachamama”, or Our Mother Earth.More
How quickly people forget or things are coming at them so fast. Cf The Desolating Sacrilege at Holy Mass concluding the Pan-Amazon Synod of Bishops 2019-10-27: ‘let those who are in Rome flee to the mountains!’

Our “La Pachamama”, or Our Mother Earth.
F M Shyanguya
One of the links is that Wordpress blog post:
Ultraviolet
At the risk of repeating myself, "Mother Earth" isn't "Pachamama." The iconography of the pagan "Pachamama" diety never included clothes or wheat in its hair or had the globe of the earth as a pregnancy. (doubtful the savages worshipping Pachamama knew the earth was a glob).
This might well be a different panthiest eco-diety, but it isn't Pachamama.
"Their silence makes the whole institutional …More
At the risk of repeating myself, "Mother Earth" isn't "Pachamama." The iconography of the pagan "Pachamama" diety never included clothes or wheat in its hair or had the globe of the earth as a pregnancy. (doubtful the savages worshipping Pachamama knew the earth was a glob).

This might well be a different panthiest eco-diety, but it isn't Pachamama.

"Their silence makes the whole institutional Church complicit"

Not so @Deacon Nick Donnelly . First, the whole institutional Church is bound by laws of obedience. Also, silence does not automatically imply consent, a point explicitly reaffirmed as a principle of law by the U.S. Supreme Court.
mccallansteve
The masons who control the Vatican are very confident and are in the, "In your face" mode. They are in for a big surprise, as the sodomites in Sodom and Gomorrah found out.
Alex A
And the masons being who?
Alex A
FM. Pope John Paul had called for the interreligious service ergo, he was responsible for what occurred within the Catholic Church. Tom Nash's defence of John Paul is not the only point of view on the Assisi incident, nor was it John Paul's first, nor last time, he intentionally or unintentionally, scandalised the faithful. See; google.com/…jsAhUp3XMBHQTQC6IQr4kDegQIARAa
V.R.S.
"Their silence makes the whole institutional Church complicit"
---
Just like in 1986 when the Buddha idol was placed on the altar of the living God in Assisi. Few like Msgr. Lefebvre did not comply.
F M Shyanguya
Cf Did St. Pope John Paul II Authorize Buddhist Worship? by Tom Nash | Catholic Answers
Abp Lefebvre cannot be held up as someone to emulate within the Church. He and the Society acknowledge his willful disobedience to legitimate Church authority and he died excommunicated from the Church.More
Cf Did St. Pope John Paul II Authorize Buddhist Worship? by Tom Nash | Catholic Answers

Abp Lefebvre cannot be held up as someone to emulate within the Church. He and the Society acknowledge his willful disobedience to legitimate Church authority and he died excommunicated from the Church.
disposable
that was NOT a legitmate church authority... the LEGITIMATE ones never could place a budah in a Catholic Church... so, dont call them "legitimate"
V.R.S.
@F M Shyanguya
I do not understand: if Buddha was legitimate then why Pachamama is not?