Who is one going to believe and follow? The Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church on March 10th 2009 declared that the SSPX has no "canonical status in the Church" and that ministers of the SSPX "do not exercise legitimate ministries within the Church". In a magazine dated July 11th 2008, a Monsignor Camille Perl the Vice President of PCED is quoted as saying that "the SSPX is not in formal schism". [Notice the qualifier "formal".]
Christus vincit Christus regnat Christus imperat
Viva il Papa!

While we wait for official response from the SSPX to the Vatican ...

What "official response"???? The SSPX has NO CANONICAL standing within the Church. And the Vatican has to wait for the Lefebvrist response??? What, in fear and trembling??? That splinter group should kneel in gratitude that Rome has deigned to re-open dialogue.

In his letter of the 10th of March 2009 "to the Bishops of the Catholic Church concerning the remission of the excommunication of the four bishops consecrated by Archbishop Lefebvre", His Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI wrote:
"The fact that the Society of St Pius X does not possess a canonical status in the Church is not, in the end, based on disciplinary but on doctrinal reasons. As long as the Society does not have a canonical status in the Church, its ministers do not exercise legitimate ministries in the Church."

That is hardly a pre-21st Century accusation ... though the SSPX position does well and truly predate the 20th Century!

Christus vincit Christus regnat Christus imperat
Viva il Papa!

"On September 12th, 2006, Joseph Ratzinger claimed that the god of the Muslims is both transcendental and unreasonable."

Firstly, Pope Benedict would never have referred to "the god of the Muslims" because Jews, Christians and Moslems are all monotheists and all worship the One same God. Secondly, and consequently, the Pope could not have said, and indeed did not say, that this "god ... is ... unreasonable". The point he was very clearly, and correctly, making is that the "understanding" that some Moslems have had [have] of God historically has been [is] unreasonable. A totally different thing. Thirdly, this "Gloria.TV News Brief" seems to imply that there is something wrong with God being "transcendental". It is a common teaching of Jews, Christians and Moslems that God is ultimately transcendent. He is totally "other" for who can understand the mind of God? One of the differences between Christians and Moslems, however, is that for us God is ALSO intimately IMMANENT ... becoming one of us in Our Lord Jesus Christ ... both God and man.
Anyone wanting to know more about the real "Regensberg Address" might be interested in the following website:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regensburg_lecture
One of the wondrous mysteries of our Christian Faith is that God is, at the very same time, both transcendent and immanent. Glory be to God!
Christus vincit Christus regnat Christus imperat
Viva il Papa!

The situation, surely, is simple and anyone with even the most basic ability to think logically and even the most rudimentary understanding of the Sacramental system of the Catholic Church surely comprehends: Marriage is a Sacrament ... a Sacrament before Almighty God between one man and one woman. What is so difficult to understand about that? What is conservative, reactionary about that? There is no "homophobia" here. "Civil Unions"? Go for it! Holy Matrimony conducted in a Catholic Church? Forget about it! This is another example of the arrogant "sense of entitlement" emanating from the United States where women who have no intention to marry still experience the "right" to have a child by artificial insemination or where gay couples experience the "right" to adopt a child. All the "still in the closet" Dutch parishes and monastic communities put together could NEVER change what is a TEACHING of the Catholic Church. Whether the "faithful" are a long way from where the leadership wants them to be is totally irrelevant. The Catholic Church doesn't decide Its moral practice based on opinion polls or electoral majorities. It is up to the Pope and the Bishops in communion with him to lead and for the rest of us to follow. Thanks be to God, we have had many Supreme Pontiffs totally unafraid to lead. May His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI and his successors be strengthened by Our Lord to continue leading and may we, the flock, have the humility and the grace to listen and follow.
Christus vincit Christus regnat Christus imperat
Viva il Papa!

Hi ACL  !!!
The point that I was trying to make, and responding to, turns on whether the Popes have been wrong in beginning the "Assisi Ecumenical Meetings of World Religious Leaders". Philosopher would argue, I think [please correct me if I'm wrong, Philosopher] that those issues do not involve the teaching authority of the Pope and, as such, can not only be criticised by ordinary Catholics but can be openly classed as disasters and mistakes in prudence. I, on the other hand, hold that it is perfectly within the ordinary teaching authority of the Pope, in fact it is his duty as Christ's Vicar, to become involved in ecumenical dialogue and because of THAT, we the laity have the duty to openly support him in this work. Quite a difference in actual fact. Gregory then rightly brought the discussion back to the original news item about the Lefebvrists. He made the very clear and proper point that when the SSPX went against Rome they not only defied the ordinary teaching authority of the Pope but also his infallible authority. The confusion arose because two different cases were being discussed at various times by three different people: The Assisi Meetings and the news item about the Lefebvrists.
Christus vincit Christus regnat Christus imperat
Viva il Papa!

Hi Philosopher, please allow me to enter the discussion. You set up an hypothetical situation which, though highly unlikely, is within the realms of possibility. I think that you are correct in saying that in such a situation, [the selling off of St Peters' etc., etc.,] Catholics could openly and rightly disagree with the Pope. They would do so, however, not with the pope as Supreme Pastor of the Universal Church but with the pope as Sovereign of the City of the Vatican. The former institution was established by Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, and not even the gates of hell can ever or shall ever prevail against it, while the latter is a mere accident of history. Your hypothetical situation concerns "real estate" and as you rightly point out "it is in no way disloyal to respectfully disagree or criticize the Pope or churchmen on practical matters." Surely during the period when the Popes were the temporal rulers of the Papal States [from roughly the C6th to 1861-1870] more than a few of their subjects would have disagreed with them, whether respectfully or not, over "practical matters"! When, however, you go on to say that "the ecumenical meetings [in Assisi] fall within the pragmatic and practical affairs of the Church", I have to disagree with you and agree with my friend SBpfu. Our Lord Jesus Himself, was never loath to converse and discuss matters with people He disagreed with and whom He even opposed strongly. He wept when they did not listen to Him but He spoke to and with them nonetheless. This "talking" was very much part of His Mission here on earth; it went to the heart of His "affairs" and was not a peripheral matter. It is in this same spirit that our late Holy Father, the Blessed John Paul II of happy memory, commenced these ecumenical meetings and Pope Benedict XVI, now gloriously reigning, has continued them. They are a respectful recognition that other religious groups exist and that we as Catholics have to learn to live with them and they with us. If these meetings bring even a little bit of religious peace in the world then they would have been more than worth it. And, who knows, perhaps the seeds of conversion may find fertile soil within some of the non-Catholics attending. When the Pope goes to these meetings he no more leaves behind or denies the teaching that he represents absolute truth [the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church] than Christ left behind His realisation that "the Father and Son are One" when he talked to the Scribes, Pharisees and High Priests for whom this teaching was utter blasphemy. As SBpfu points out, Pope Benedict is perhaps the most erudite theologian-philosopher Pope in the Church's history, he knows what he is doing. We as laity should not be trying to second guess him but pray for him canstantly so that he will triumph over all the enemies of the Church. I can't, however, quite see the jolly, and incredibly brave, Dalai Lama, for instance, as an enemy of the Church. So let's keep talking, only good can come out of it.
Christus vincit Christus regnat Christus imperat
Viva il Papa!

Very true Gregory. I take your point about the "fracturing nature" of those who break away from Rome. The "Orthodox" are nothing but national churches and in some countries there are even 2 or more "Orthodox" Churches. And the protestants ... well, they have continued fracturing and splitting further to this very day. No wonder so many Anglicans have realised that the only road ahead is through Rome. "Ut unum sint!"
Christus vincit Christus regnat Christus imperat
Viva il Papa!

Are we giving the Lefebvrists too much importance and thus flattering their self-importance? It is they who left the Church. We can't be "Papists" only when we agree with the Pope. We can't be Catholics only when we agree with what the Church does. Even more so, we can't portray ourselves as the only "true Catholics" while the overwhelmingly vast majority of the rest of the Church has fallen into error! "Roma locuta est - causa finita est" [paraphrasing St Augustine of Hippo] ... when Rome has spoken [either the Pope as the Infallible Supreme Pastor of the Church Universal or the Magisterium - the Holy Father together with the Bishops in Communion with him] the matter is closed. If in good conscience we find it difficult to accept what the Church has decided, we must wait patiently and obediently until such time as the Church decides, in its wisdom and in its Christ-given right, whether or not to modify a particular situation. We can't just get up and leave in a huff like Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and his followers did or attempt to "negotiate" as equals with the Church as Bishop Fellay and his ilk are doing now. It is high time that they stop trying to be "more Catholic than the Pope".
Christus vincit Christus regnat Christus imperat
Viva il Papa!

My brothers and sisters, my fellow Catholics, should GloriaTV become a very specific Internet "Pressure Group" pushing orthodox Catholic causes and total reverence and obedience for the Holy Father? I know that I am a "Johnny come lately" on this website so that I have really no right to be proposing things ahead of more senior members ... BUT ... regardless of what happened on this occasion [and the longer video does seem to suggest a more "benevolent" interpretation of the event] ... there are enough anti-Pope groups ... why not tilt the situation a bit more towards our side? Unfortunately, however, I am neither media nor internet savvy ... is there anyone out there who is and can lead us? ... that is if there are enough willing to follow. If this post is met by "the sounds of silence" then we have our answer ...
Christus vincit Christus regnat Christus imperat
Viva il Papa!

I have watched this video several times ... always hoping that that my previous view was somehow faulty!!! I CANNOT believe that a bishop would refuse to shake hands, and even avoid making eye-contact, with the Vicar of Christ!!!! Are we worthy of the name Catholic? May God Almighty forgive us!!! This is the most horrible video that I have ever seen! It is the first time that I have had feelings of absolute disrespect for members of the Episcpacy and may God forgive me for that.
Sboc

Oh my God!!! This is incredible!!! Quite clearly some bishops are snubbing the Holy Father!!! What is happening to the Church in the "German" countries? I make a point of watching all the Papal visits within Italy and outside and I have NEVER seen something like this. In the UK, everyone was rightfully respectful, so where they in Croatia, Malta, before that in Portugal, and, naturally in Spain for the WYD, and recently in Ancona for the 25th Eucharistic Congress in Italy.
Most Holy Father, we offer you our total obedience, loyalty and reverence! We ask that God will forgive those haughty prelates who have dared to insult His Vicar on earth and we pray that you will triumph always over your enemies! It is extraordinary that these prelates should fall over each other to shake the hand of a divorced and remarried so called "Catholic" President of Germany while Peter, the Rock of the Church, is left empty handed!
Christus vincit Christus regnat Christus imperat
VIVA IL PAPA! LONG LIVE OUR HOLY FATHER POPE BENEDICT XVI!!!

Hi ACL ,
As always, you are spot on. Christians, and specifically Catholics, are the most persecuted religious group on earth at the present moment ... anyone can say whatever they want about our most sacred and revered institutions and beliefs ... do whatever they want to us ... and NO-ONE lifts a finger or utters a single word in protest!!!!!
Christus vincit Christus regnat Christus imperat
Viva il Papa!