Erika Kirk
What I am saying is that these are universal gestures for "devotion" etc., used by the human race based our humanity and the way it's "wired".
To say that Freemasons "copied it" from the Saints as though it is not simply a commonly understood gesture rooted in how our humanity expresses itself through our bodily actions is what I am objecting to.
Have you ever seen a dog or a cat beg....? Some will take on subservient poses, or even stand on their back legs with their front paws together in a gesture of supplication. And these are just animals. Yet, they seem to know how to "speak" with their bodies.
Did these animals copy these gestures of supplication from the Saints? Of course not.
It's "body language" that easily communicates subservience, supplication, etc. It's part of the way we were created by God. Even our bodies convey a kind of "language".
Basically, the Freemasons didn't need the Saints to "invent" such gestures of "devotion", "fidelity", etc. before they copied it, anymore than other human gestures which commonly reflect certain thoughts, emotions and intentions. You can even watch people from afar and know very much about what they are thinking and how they are feeling.
Just because certain terminology was assigned to such gestures doesn't mean they were copied; it simply reflects a similarity in what is expressed.
The Knights of old also used such gestures of loyalty, fidelity and honor. They didn't have to copy the Saints to know how to express such things in a bodily manner. It's all part of the human lexicon of body language that shares a universality across time and space.
This is explained by Body Language specialists who can analyze such things and even read body language as easily as the spoken language due to universality of the manner in which our bodies reflect our thoughts and emotions. They can even tell you exactly what someone is thinking from their facial expressions, and whether emotions are feigned or genuine.
This was done, in fact, on Erika Kirk, when many were questioning her after her husband's death. Body language experts said her grief was absolutely genuine based on a whole list of characteristics reflected in her face and body.
In the same way, to attribute these and other similarities to intentional "copying" by satanists and freemasons is baseless. They are just basic human mannerisms that express certain ideas, meanings, thoughts, dispositions and emotions.
Erika Kirk
@In Principio To be clear, the sign used by satanists is not the same at all. The satanic horn sign uses only two fingers in the shape of "devil horns" (the index finger and the pinky 5th finger), and leaves out the thumb used to complete the letter "L"
Two fingers raised in the shape of devil horns is something completely unrelated; not an "adoption" of ASL language used to spell letters.
There is absolutely no letter in the ASL language that uses those two fingers like that. Even their letter "Y" uses the thumb and pinky finger.
We only have five fingers. The similarities in hand signals is not even remotely related.
Are we going to say the obscene gesture using the middle finger is also related to ASL? Of course not.
Neither is it correct to say Freemasons adopted hands on the chest from the saints. We only have two arms and one chest. A lot of people fold their arms over their chest for reasons completely unrelated to either the Saints or the Freemasons. Many do it as an unspoken gesture conveying fright or sorrow.
I really find this type of "alarmism" quite wearisome. And that comes from someone who is well aware that we are living in a world being smothered by covert evil operations leaving us in the dark most of the time. This is not one of them.
Erika knew exactly what her intention was in expressing her love for her deceased husband, and those who say it was a satanic symbol are completely mistaken.
I know people who have gotten so neck-deep in conspiracy theories that they have lost touch with reality. Someone I know like this now thinks the earth is flat.
Erika Kirk
@Willys B Ramirez Sorry, incorrect. It was first used by deaf children dating back to 1905:
"..the sign originated among deaf schoolchildren using American Sign Language to create a sign from a combination of the signs for the letters I, L, and Y (I Love You)"
This article addresses both its origin -- by whom and when -- and the fact that it is confused with the satanic sign, which is different.
ILY sign - Wikipedia
I find it particularly wearying that while we do live in a very evil world, people don't take time to properly research "conspiracies" and other nonsense before espousing them....like the flat earth theory.
Erika Kirk
Actually, that's incorrect. That is standard ASL (American Sign Language) for the words "I Love You" and has been since the 19th century.
It forms 3 letters: "I" "L(ove)" and "Y(ou)"
How to Sign I Love You - Sign Language - ASL
“you are in awe that this person’s now the pope and you deal with him in a certain reverence, but …
The person interviewing him wears a suit. As a Cardinal -- a "Prince of the Church" -- he appears in shirt sleeves.
The Blessing of the Waters by Pope Leo XIV, at today’s ‘Raising Hope for Climate Justice’ International …
It's difficult to understand how the adults who assisted at this did not experience absolute embarrassment and derision over an infantile presentation that is more suited to kindergartners or pagan rituals. The leader of the Catholic world standing there with his hand on a melting block of ice in all seriousness? How was it he consented to collaborate in such idiocy?
Erika Kirk: "My husband Charlie he wanted to save young men, just like the one who took his life...On …
@De Profundis Trump said of Kirk: "But what was even more important to Charlie than politics and service was the choice he made in the fifth grade, which he called the most important decision of his life to become a Christian and a follower of his savior Jesus Christ."
Erika Kirk: "My husband Charlie he wanted to save young men, just like the one who took his life...On …
During Trump's speech at the conclusion of the Memorial, he called for America to return to God and to "bring God back into everything...." He said America needs God very badly.... So does the entire world, but at least our President acknowledges it publicly, loud and clear, before the entire world.
'Dark Night of the Soul' by Saint John of the Cross; poem; 1959 first printing
You may be aware - however, others may not be - that image above was drawn by Saint John of the Cross. It was a vision of Our Lord on the Cross exactly as St. John of the Cross saw Him as if from above, a completely unusual and heretofore unusual angle at which to imagine the Crucifixion.
Look at how emaciated and distended Our Blessed Lord's limbs are.....!
'Blessed Maria Pierina de Micheli & The Holy Face of Jesus Devotion & Medal'
We have a framed image of the Holy Face of Jesus from the Holy Shroud in every single room in our home. It is absolutely incredible that we don't have to imagine what Our Lord Jesus Christ looked like, and can actually have framed images of Our Lord Himself in our homes so that we can gaze upon Him all the time, every day.
Can we even imagine the power of His actual, true Face looking down upon us each and every day in the very place where we live here on earth? We can actually see Him....!
This one is life size. We got it from the Holy Face Association.
St. Teresa of Avila - small thing..
....and that doesn't even begin to explain how you can get life from inorganic matter....or even where inorganic matter suddenly comes from.
The evolutionists want to say "nothing somehow created something", as long as that nothing is not God.
St. Teresa of Avila - small thing..
@In Principio Thank you! I'll look into these. I wish I had bookmarked another article I saw about the number of "accidental mutations" required to get from a single-celled amoeba to the vast array of discrete species we now know exist proves mathematically to be impossible even in trillions of years.
St. Teresa of Avila - small thing..
@In Principio Can you recommend any sources that use mathematics to prove the existence (or at least the necessity) of God? For example, I have long thought that mathematics easily disproves evolution.
And how about the multiple, inter-dependent forces at work in the Universe that must be in precise mathematical balance. All of this, based on odds alone would seem to easily prove the existence of God as Creator.
There was once an article in the New York Times on that topic, and it discussed the fact that the odds are overwhelmingly against our Universe's existence -- hence the bizarre multiverse theory....ANYTHING BUT GOD...!!!! What obduracy.
Would love anything you could point me to! Thank you! God bless!
St. Teresa of Avila - small thing..
@In Principio Why not?
In any event...do as your conscience suggests!
St. Teresa of Avila - small thing..
@In Principio By the way....I am fascinated by what I know of Mathematics purely because it seems to me that God is the Author of Mathematics and that our entire Creation is built upon a Mathematical construct and framework.
Math is not just something we learn, like history or language....it seems to me it is at the very foundation of God's Fiat! when He created.
One of the reasons I look forward to Eternity....that I might plummet the depths of these mysteries and see God's glory reflected in all of them...!
St. Teresa of Avila - small thing..
@In Principio It does sound as though from all you have shared that you allow a generous amount of time for prayer, discernment, spiritual growth and availability to God. With all that -- plus having conferred with a Priest -- it would seem God would easily have guided you otherwise if it were not His Will.
Exercising one's reason in higher mathematical pursuits, even as a "hobby" can easily be a means of providing intellectual equilibrium and balance for an intense spiritual life. I, too, find that the intellectual demands of my profession are a salutary counter-balance to the interior life. It's the Benedictine motto of "Ora et Labora!" Both are mutually supporting pillars for the soul.
So very glad our little exchange had something to offer in your deliberations. All glory to God....as I am learning more and more just how much of an unprofitable servant I am. We actually have no idea how great our poverty is until God draws back the curtain more and more. Please pray for me!
God bless you!
15 September - 'Our Lady of Sorrows' or 'The Seven Sorrows of Our Lady' - part II - "The Mother's …
Saint Bridget of Sweden's Revelations are so powerful.
St. Teresa of Avila - small thing..
You most undoubtedly are familiar with the Rules for Discernment by Saint Ignatius.
"Some basic patterns are easy to grasp. For instance, as you would anticipate, the good spirit usually brings love, joy, peace, and the like; the evil spirit characteristically brings confusion, doubt, disgust, and the like. Another pattern: when you are leading a seriously sinful life, a good spirit will visit you with desolation to turn you around; an evil spirit will keep you content so that you will keep sinning. Another clear pattern is the opposite of this: when you are seriously serving God, the spirits change roles. The evil spirit clouds your day with desolation to lead you away from God, while the good spirit fills your day with trust and love of God. And a final, easily grasped pattern: a spirit that works in light and openness is good, while a spirit cloaked in secrecy and deception is evil."
When we habitually live in the state of grace, we experience interior concord and peace when following the Will of God.
Further, all our pursuits are to be viewed in the light of eternity and whether they advance us in virtue and fidelity to all the movements of grace and conduce to our sanctification.
I apologize for using my own examples now, but it makes it easier to explain my thought:
During the course of my profession, for example, I experienced that all of the challenges, sufferings, responsibilities and difficulties I encountered demanded that I exercise virtues that are ultimately useful and necessary in the spiritual life.
These temporal responsibilities themselves honed the moral virtues I would not otherwise have had either the opportunity or the motivation or circumstances to exercise with greater and greater generosity....such as overcoming human nature's inclination to sloth, which alone can render the spiritual life sterile, as just one example.
For example, I was forced to practice fortitude, self-abnegation, diligence, self-denial, and docility to the will of another rather than my own preference, so as to divest me of self-will in a form of immolation to the ever-present, ever-working Will of God, even while exercising full prudence and judgment in what was needed to be done. I either developed these virtues and practiced them generously, or failed in meeting fully the temporal responsibilities before me.
Essentially, God not only wastes nothing, He also obliges us to circumstances that will purify us and which lay the foundation for the spiritual life. The moral virtues underpin and safeguard the theological virtues.
Even our hobbies can be useful this way; however, since they are discretionary, more honesty with oneself is required.
Do the hobbies offer legitimate recreational benefit (we all need some outlet that refreshes us and helps us return to the spiritual battle fortified)..? Or do the hobbies interfere or cool the ardor of my devotion to God, etc.? If they are morally indifferent, are they spiritually beneficial or detrimental?
Sometimes speaking to a Priest about such matters after invoking the Holy Ghost for enlightenment can help confirm or dissuade one in such matters. May you receive the light you seek!
God bless you!
P.S. ALSO....Sometimes going on a full retreat -- especially an Ignatian Retreat -- gives God the opportunity to fully enlighten us on something that may never even have occurred to us. That happened to me once and God asked me to make a monumental decision (and sacrifice) that was ultimately profoundly beneficial for me spiritually; and yet it was the furthest thing from my mind, and the last thing I thought He would ask of me.