Father Frank Pavone to Gloria.tv: “Yes, We Will Fight” - Interview
Father Frank Pavone: This has been the result of many years of certain bishops trying to restrict our work. All along the way, the reasons have changed. The whole history is posted at FrFrankPavone.com. There are a lot of links there to original documents and letters.
What are they complaining about?
They’ve complained about my political involvement, a lot of times they haven’t given any reason. They will say you have to come back and do this other work instead of the pro-life work and I said, “Well, why? Is there something wrong with the work I’ve been doing? Is it against doctrine? What’s the problem?” They’ve never been able to identify a problem. They just say, “You have to listen to us.”
Is that wrong?
Well, that’s the default. Normally you do. Except that, when we appealed to the Vatican, as we did multiple times when the bishop was trying to restrict me from this work, I appealed to the Vatican and the Vatican said to him, “Let him do the work because it’s good work. It’s helping the Church.”
Did the bishop accept this?
He turned around and told me the Vatican said that I couldn’t do this work. So, what am I supposed to do? They say, “Oh, you have to be obedient…” but the guy [= the bishop] is lying to me. He lied. It’s been a long, long story of various conflicting reasons.
Have you been “disobedient”?
When I did what I did they said, “Oh, father has been disobedient.” But the record shows I have obeyed any assignment they gave me. This bishop, for a long time, he didn’t give me any assignment at all. How can you obey an order that you never received? It’s a lot of vindictive, inventive excuses. It’s sad.
They said, “Oh, you had some blasphemous posts on social media.” I’m still waiting to tell me which ones they’re talking about. They’re not even identifying which ones they are. So, in a nutshell, that’s what’s going on.
Father, do you now consider yourself a “layman”?
Well, technically, canonically, yes, that’s what they said. But we all know, however, the Catholic teaching that the priesthood is not something you can lose. So, all you can lose is the permission to function as a priest.
What does the official decree say?
I have not seen the official decree. If they’re saying I’m dismissed from the clerical state and its obligations, they can set different conditions. But my understanding, through my canonical team, of what has happened is that they have put me back into the lay state so I’m not publicly dressed as a priest, although, you can see this is pretty close [dressed in black pants and a black shirt] right!? I’m obviously not functioning publicly in a sacramental way. What happens after that, or if they’re going to give me more clarity, time will tell.
Would obeying an unjust decision not encourage a misled Roman authority to use similar methods against other priests?
This is a long story. I think you will appreciate seeing the website if you have not seen it already, because there’s a lot of documentation there of the appeals we have made to Rome. In other words, when we considered an order to be unjust, we did appeal it. We did resist it. Most of the time, the Vatican ruled on our side. They ruled in our favor. They even ruled in 2019 to let me transfer to a different diocese.
So where is the problem?
But then this bishop who is constantly acting against us, interfered with that from happening. But the bottom line is yes, I agree with that – when something unjust is done, we have to fight against it. What I am doing now, being that this decision was signed off on by Francis, the way I’m appealing it, not only by asking him to reconsider, but by making it public.
Is this only a matter of Francis?
I think that there’s an appeal to be made to the people of God. Again, this is not in a rebellious way. Because this is unjust, there needs to be an appeal. Especially in this case – I’m not an unknown entity –, the people of God know our work and they support it. So, we say to the people, look, we’re not going away, we are fighting this and we’re going to continue the work.
What can we do to help you?
Look, the best thing is to continue to support our work because we have to show the bishops, we have to show the pope they’ve made a mistake because the people of God support what we’re doing. If I do that work the wrong way, let me know. I want to know. We all should be humble enough to receive correction. But this is not about that. This is just about people who have an animosity against us. So yes, we will fight it.
God bless the work of Gloria.tv!
