ChrisM
We miss you, Lucia!
kfarley
I simply see no need to change the name of our God in our Catholic tradition to Allah. I am not saying that there is anything wrong with religions or denominations that use Allah in reference to God I just think because of this "possibly rogue" bishop that we as Catholics have far more pressing matters to deal with in evangelising than to make this change in our terminology. If anything it would …More
I simply see no need to change the name of our God in our Catholic tradition to Allah. I am not saying that there is anything wrong with religions or denominations that use Allah in reference to God I just think because of this "possibly rogue" bishop that we as Catholics have far more pressing matters to deal with in evangelising than to make this change in our terminology. If anything it would hurt evangelising in our Church. An outsider, especially a Protestant thinking of joining our Church would probably be appalled by such a change because as I have stated before most other people do not share your historical knowledge and usage of the term Allah and it is perceived as an Islamic term by more than not. That is all I'm trying to say here.
Elisha9821
Dear Kfarley,

My brother in Christ, you mention the word placate as if using the term Allah would be a sign of surrender. If we are to be consistent to our Faith, then why not use the terminology used by Holy Mother Church? We should use Deus for God. There is a difference between placating and outreach. You asked about the “reason” that we might use the name of Allah. We all as baptized …More
Dear Kfarley,

My brother in Christ, you mention the word placate as if using the term Allah would be a sign of surrender. If we are to be consistent to our Faith, then why not use the terminology used by Holy Mother Church? We should use Deus for God. There is a difference between placating and outreach. You asked about the “reason” that we might use the name of Allah. We all as baptized Catholics belong in some way to the Great Commission set forth by Our King. “Go, therefore and make disciples of all nations baptizing all in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and Lo, I am with you always, until the close of the age.” (St. Matthew 28.19-20) Now, having received this mandate from Christ Himself, the Catechism states in paragraph 843: “The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved.” Now the question arises, how do we best make disciples of all nations? St. Paul teaches us how, "For, free though I was as to all, unto all I have made myself a slave that I might gain the more converts. And I have become to the Jews a Jew that I might gain the Jews…I became all things to all men, that I might save all." (1 Cor.9.19-20; 22) Do you see my brother, what is at stake? The souls of all people who do not know the Infinite Love and Sacrifice of Our King are at stake. Pre-9-11 or post 9-11 mentalities do not matter. There are still souls being lost. When I speak to Jews, I use Hashem and when I speak to whomever I use the language that they will understand. What did Jesus do when He was speaking to Pope St. Peter asking him, “Do you love Me?” Twice, He asked Him using Agape love, but Peter could not understand. So Jesus used the term for filial love. Because up to that point, Peter was limited. Later, he understood Agape love. We are to do the same thing. We are to evangelize and be missionaries until the end of time. Sometimes, one can almost hear the cries of those in Hell, wishing that someone would have told them the Truth. We must all ache for at this very moment there are people who are dying never knowing the sweetness of Our Dear Jesus, nor never knowing their true Mother, La Morenita. We must not use terminology as a political instrument but we must use language so that our separated brethren can understand and to bring them into the fulness of the Faith, and the most important language is that of Love. Love that only comes from Him after we have spent time before Him in the Adoration Chapel. We must go to Him and say, “Father, I am nothing, and I can do nothing! I have no words for failing You.” But we must also say, “But You are my Father and I love You in my own incomplete way.” Then you will feel the love of Him and you will feel the gentle stroke of your hair by our wonderful Lady, our Mother. She holds our hands and leads us to that Light which is the source of all Truth - her Son.

We must all remember the ultimate goal of our evangelism efforts, “You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” (Gal. 3.26-28)

Your servant in Christ,

✍️ Elisha9821
kfarley
It is good to debate but like you say the wisdom of mankind is foolishness to God. I think the most important thing to keep in mind is that God is in charge. I personally feel that when someone like this Bishop comes out and declares the want or need to change something in this manner it is suspect. In the scheme of events the bishop is a small player and really is not to be feared but scandal …More
It is good to debate but like you say the wisdom of mankind is foolishness to God. I think the most important thing to keep in mind is that God is in charge. I personally feel that when someone like this Bishop comes out and declares the want or need to change something in this manner it is suspect. In the scheme of events the bishop is a small player and really is not to be feared but scandal can result from someone taking it upon themselves in our Church to try and force change that is not necessary. If you examine the "why" this bishop would want the change it usually amounts to a selfish personal desire rather than the good of the Church. The Church has no reason to change God to Allah and the timing of this Bishop's quest for this type of name change could not be worse in light of world events especially in this last decade. Any person can appreciate that since to the average citizen of the world the word Allah would not bring the Christian faith to mind-not saying there is anything wrong with the word,-Allah is God. since there is one God in reality a person could call God any name they wanted if it was done in the truest form of worship and respect for the Almighty Being. The problem is with the general perception that this type of change would produce. If this Bishop is the lone voice crying out in the wilderness for this change and our Holy Father does not seem concerned with this matter that is really all we need to worry about as Catholics.
REVTHREEVS21
My brothers: What a very interesting discussion. You are very informative, Elisha.....I think, the correct way, to interpret this, is not in my field of expertise. As a matter of fact, I find it interesting, the different, uses of Allah. What I did recieve, and very much enjoyed, was brother Elisha's expertise, in not judging. I have been taught, great lessons, by the Lord.....and I find, the …More
My brothers: What a very interesting discussion. You are very informative, Elisha.....I think, the correct way, to interpret this, is not in my field of expertise. As a matter of fact, I find it interesting, the different, uses of Allah. What I did recieve, and very much enjoyed, was brother Elisha's expertise, in not judging. I have been taught, great lessons, by the Lord.....and I find, the Lord, amazing, when it comes to his Mercy, and blessings. I have many times, thought, such and such, should not be succeeding....ect..ect....and the Lord, told me, just for that.....I am going to bless him......We have to remember, we are so spiritually, and mentally, incapeable, of really, having any wisdom at all, compared to the Lord, that in humility, even though we might, be very proud, and arrogant, at times, in our zeal. The correct relationship, between, us and the Lord, can be summed up, in this statement. The Lord God, is so much in control, and so powerful, He guided the Romans, in the art of road building, setting up, the perfect Evangelizing routes, that connected, quickly all the World. I am sure, the Lord, had a hand, in developing the Cross, as a brutal means, of torture, with His Son in mind......it needed to be a once in a life--time, event...for all eternity......the Level of Power, just in the thought, of these events, to prove His Love for us, makes, those pains, in Hell, even more brutal. I am sure, those in Hell, are shown, what the Lord, cooked up, for himself, to redeem us, and His Church, and the Sacrafice, when looked at in depth, like I am attempting to do, really shows, it could only be done, by God. Every other false, religion, or false, god pales, in comparison. We have a Living God, that is unraveling TRUTH, to us, and if you, try and compare, our insight, or wisdom to Gods, it would be like, comparing, Einsteins, mind....to a dead snail.....when I read a debate, like the one you two are doing, it only catches my attention, for a moment, and then I drift off.....to the place in my mind, where I am trying to catch a look, at the small wave, breaking on the ocean, and begging God, to see beyond it.....but the wave, is all I can see, and I know, the entire, ocean, is shimmering majestically, as far as the eye, can see....full of amazing things...and that ocean, has above, it a massive, solar system....full of stars, and planets....and behind all of this, lies, heaven, and it has wonder, and excitement, that words, cannot even express. But, I am stuck, on the beach, looking through just a sliver or peep hole, at just a little wave, breaking in front of me.......I can see, absolutly nothing....and I have no wisdom.....I am nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!! 🤨
kfarley
I appreciate what you have said here but we must ask what would the motive be to "change" our reference to Allah from our current status? It would do nothing to help Christian/Islamic relations and in fact would aggravate them. The Islamic terrorist would be infuriated by a Christian or let me say-a new widespread "change" of usage in the Christian community in reference to God. The Islamic …More
I appreciate what you have said here but we must ask what would the motive be to "change" our reference to Allah from our current status? It would do nothing to help Christian/Islamic relations and in fact would aggravate them. The Islamic terrorist would be infuriated by a Christian or let me say-a new widespread "change" of usage in the Christian community in reference to God. The Islamic terrorist is the key here. We need not be concerned with how peace loving Muslims would react because the point is they would not. Peaceful Muslims are not the problem. In a post 9/11 world there is no need for the Catholic or other Christian denominations to make changes reflecting Islamic references to God. You have pointed out others who use Allah but the point is most people view the term as Islamic and do not share your wider knowlege in terminology. We of the true faith do not need to change to placate others and in fact should try to get other faiths to emulate us rather than we emulating faiths that do not view Christ our Savior as God incarnate. This Bishop is troubled to say the least and in my work I come into contact with religious priests, bishops, brothers and deacons who are not in line with Catholic doctrine. Unless the Holy Father would be pushing for the use of Allah I would not take it seriously and in fact would view this to be an act of needless troublemaking on the part of a troubled individual. I would bet if this Bishop's views on other doctrine in the Catholic Church would be made available you'd find a pattern or rebellion that would make itself evident. As I stated I work on a daily basis with religious men and this Bishop sets off immediate suspicion as to his motivations.
Elisha9821
Dear Kfarley, my brother in Christ,

While I appreciate you enthusiasm for the Faith, I have a few questions. Why do you give the appearance that you are so quick to judge? What do you say about the 20 million Christian- Arabs who use the name of Allah in not only their everyday lives when referring to God, but most importantly, in the Divine Liturgy? What about the Maronites? What is the …More
Dear Kfarley, my brother in Christ,

While I appreciate you enthusiasm for the Faith, I have a few questions. Why do you give the appearance that you are so quick to judge? What do you say about the 20 million Christian- Arabs who use the name of Allah in not only their everyday lives when referring to God, but most importantly, in the Divine Liturgy? What about the Maronites? What is the etymology of Allah and how is it related to Aramaic and Hebrew?

In your comment my brother, you give the appearance of pride, but that may not have been your intention. Remember pride can be a very dangerous thing and you cannot know the status of someone else’s soul. What did St. Paul write about himself? “For I have nothing on my conscience, yet I am not thereby justified; but He who judges me is the Lord. Therefore, pass no judgment before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the things hidden in darkness and make manifest the counsels of hearts.” (1 Cor. 4.4-5) If we can not justify ourselves, how can we possibly know the status of someone else’s soul? Remember, Christ is the Judge. St. Michael the Archangel did not even rebuke the deceiver himself when he was disputing over the body of Moses, “he did not even venture to bring an accusation of blasphemy, but said, ’May the Lord rebuke thee.’”(St. Jude 1.9) Holy Mother Church teaches that we are to give people the benefit of the doubt. We must not judge people especially, when it is someone we don’t even know. There are some of us, who think we are with God, and in reality we are far away, while some of us think we are far from Him, but in reality, we are one with Him. Only Our Lord and Master knows the Truth and all will be revealed at the appointed time.

Concerning the 20 million Christian-Arabs who use the name of Allah, do they lack the Truth in your eyes? Yahweh is known by many names in many languages, and we must guard ourselves against using cultural colonialism on the world. God is Deus, Dios, El, Al, El Shaddai, Elohim, Dieu, et al. The Almighty and wonderful Father knows when His children call on Him in any language. You mentioned the terrorists who struck using the name of Allah. Let me tell you another story about someone who also used the name of Allah at his death. Father Ragheed. They killed him with three of his deacons who were with him – Basman Yousef Daud, Wahid Hanna Isho, and Gassan Isam Bidawed. Shortly before he died, he said these words, "It is our duty not to give in to despair: God will listen to our prayers for peace in Iraq" Notice that he said "God". He spoke Arabic, which means he said "Allah". Does his sacrifice count as nothing? Does his blood and that of the deacons count less because they did not use an English moniker that represents the Living God? Remember, God is not His Name. What did Fr. Ragheed say? "Christ challenges evil with His Infinite Love, He keeps us united and through the Eucharist He gifts us life, which the terrorists are trying to take away". So we have two sets of people, one using the name of Allah for a destructive act, the other set using the Name of Allah for the act of consecration to worship the Triune God. For the former, we must follow Christ’s example and say, ‘Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do.” Only God knows the minds and hearts of those misguided souls, but we must still pray and love all.

The Name of Allah is used in the Maronite Church along with Aramaic. After all they are both derived from the Semitic language. Look at Ellah and Allah, and Illah. They are hebrew, arabic, and aramaic respectively. Do you not see the similarities? What is the Name of God in Aramaic? Ellah (God). And what Name did Our Lord use on the Cross? Eloi. (My God). I have not written in the original script but rather chose to write them that they may be understood, in the context of our discussion. We can get more technical if you desire. But this is an attempt to illustrate the similarities of the link of The Name. The Maronite rite was founded in the Fourth Century AHS by St. Maron in the area of what is now Syria, and Lebanon. The Name of Allah has appeared in Holy Mother Church almost 200 years before Muhammad. So, the Name represents the One Triune God, or individually can be written as Allah-al-ab (God the Father), Allah-al ibn (God the Son), and Allah al-ruh al-quds (God the Holy Spirit). Look at some of the beautiful prayers and songs written for God Our King….So I would encourage you and all other brothers and sisters in the Faith to visit those Churches that are in union with the Holy See.

Remember my brother that we only love God as much as we hate our greatest enemy. Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ gave us two commandments: one, is to love the Lord God, with all our heart, mind, and soul, the second, and this is where we miss the point sometimes, is not to love our neighbours as ourselves, but to love our neighbours as He has loved us. We must be willing to sacrifice ourselves for those who despise us and want to hurt us. For no student is above their teacher. Did He not do the same while we mocked Him? We must always express that True Love to all for we are His Hands, His Feet, His Mouth!!!!!!

Viva la Morena!!!

Viva la Virgen de Guadalupe!!!

Viva Cristo Rey!!!

Your brother in Christ,

✍️ Elisha9821
kfarley
That's about it! It is funny how this Bishop is so willing to change our faith to emulate a faith that detests Christianity! That is something I will give the Islamic terrorist-even though they are truly evil individuals one thing you won't see them doing is trying to emulate their enemy the Christian(Thank God)!-This bishop should think about this fact and take this lesson to heart.
REVTHREEVS21
Oh my Lord....help us......why don't we just, fly the muslim flag, at the Vatican......??????
ansgar
🙂
kfarley
Retired Bishop Martinus is an example of "the smoke of Satan entering the Church". His wanting Christians to use the term Allah for God is a pathetic attempt at appeasement directed towards radical Islam. The Bishop's naivete does not recognize that radical Islamists hate Christians and using the term Allah by a Christian would actually be seen as offensive to a Muslim radical. Since the Islamic …More
Retired Bishop Martinus is an example of "the smoke of Satan entering the Church". His wanting Christians to use the term Allah for God is a pathetic attempt at appeasement directed towards radical Islam. The Bishop's naivete does not recognize that radical Islamists hate Christians and using the term Allah by a Christian would actually be seen as offensive to a Muslim radical. Since the Islamic religion has no central figure such as a Pope as our Catholic faith does, Islamists do not even recognize other varying factions of their own faith as true Muslims! Muslims kill other Muslims because they see the other faction of Islam to be invalid! For this Bishop to think that we Christians should be changing the name we call our God to Allah-the same Allah that the terrorists screamed in unison as they slammed planes into our World Trade Center, Pentagon and a field in Pennsylvania shows how lost this Bishop is. Islam does not recognize Christ as the Savior and for a Catholic Bishop to try and make symmetry between our Christian religion and Islam is shameful. Notice it is not Islamics changing their term from Allah to God, it is a naive retired Bishop out of either senility, ignorance, stupidity, evil or some combination of these things is calling for Christians to compromise with the mindset of the Islamic terrorist. Make no mistake about it-it is not the peaceful Muslim who would want a Christian calling God Allah-it is the terrorist who would see a Christian calling God, Allah to be a weak adversary that is compromising the very name they call their God who is so pathetic that they need to be either killed or converted to Islam. Any questions?