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Andre Luiz
14527

Medjugorje 2013 Youth Festival

Medjugorje 2013 Youth Festival (DVD 4 - English) - This is DVD 4 of 4 from the 2013 International Youth Festival in Medjugorje. It was from August 1 - 6, 2013 in Medjugorje, Bosnia & Herzegovina …More
Medjugorje 2013 Youth Festival (DVD 4 - English) - This is DVD 4 of 4 from the 2013 International Youth Festival in Medjugorje. It was from August 1 - 6, 2013 in Medjugorje, Bosnia & Herzegovina
DVD 1/4: youtu.be/o8-RICXPvvo
DVD 2/4: youtu.be/gAEeUhsoAsk
DVD 3/4: youtu.be/lRpbcgPR9t4
DVD 4/4: youtu.be/Bt1RoVazV9k
frawley
@Ultraviolet - Sounds like you have never seen the thurible in the Cathedral in Santiago de Compostella Spain!
Ultraviolet
@frawley - Sounds like you're butthurt over the last Medjugorje thread. :P Yer makin' a slippery slope fallacy combined with a fallacy of a cherry-picked example outside the norm. When the Botafumeiro's smokin' the celebrants aren't obscured. That's inside a cathedral an' this is outside. With the kind of smoke happening at this "youth festival," Robert Duvall is gonna call in an air-strike..…More
@frawley - Sounds like you're butthurt over the last Medjugorje thread. :P Yer makin' a slippery slope fallacy combined with a fallacy of a cherry-picked example outside the norm. When the Botafumeiro's smokin' the celebrants aren't obscured. That's inside a cathedral an' this is outside. With the kind of smoke happening at this "youth festival," Robert Duvall is gonna call in an air-strike...
frawley
Amazing! you are absolutely spot on! Lets set off a smoke bomb on the altar in the middle of mass! All those people out there will never know! We will buy one of those smoke bombs that smell like incense! They will fall for it for sure! After all they are not all that sharp - they even fall for a group of kids faking a visit from the Virgin Mary calling them to prayer penance and turning back to …More
Amazing! you are absolutely spot on! Lets set off a smoke bomb on the altar in the middle of mass! All those people out there will never know! We will buy one of those smoke bombs that smell like incense! They will fall for it for sure! After all they are not all that sharp - they even fall for a group of kids faking a visit from the Virgin Mary calling them to prayer penance and turning back to God. Anyone one should be able to see thru that! Some are even foolish enough to become priest and nuns! Too bad they don't look to the internet for the real deal! (much more convenient and cheaper than seeing first hand)
Ultraviolet
"Lets set off a smoke bomb on the altar in the middle of mass! All those people out there will never know!"

Nah, you got it all wrong, bro. 'course they're gonna know. That's the point! It's youth festival. Everything's gotta be bigger and bolder at a youth festival. Nobody's gonna see a thurifer waving something about the size of a cut-down 40oz can of Pabst Blue Ribbon. But this? Oh yeah!…More
"Lets set off a smoke bomb on the altar in the middle of mass! All those people out there will never know!"

Nah, you got it all wrong, bro. 'course they're gonna know. That's the point! It's youth festival. Everything's gotta be bigger and bolder at a youth festival. Nobody's gonna see a thurifer waving something about the size of a cut-down 40oz can of Pabst Blue Ribbon. But this? Oh yeah! It's a Medjugorje Miracle! Gospa sent some saintly smoke! :P

Even if people intellectually realize this is man-made, it looks "spiritual" and "mystical". This is theater, Frawley. If anything, it's a further indictment. Holy places don't need cheap theatrics.

"We will buy one of those smoke bombs that smell like incense!"

Since you weren't there (at least you've shown no proof that you were) you don't know what the smoke smelled like. Perhaps the smoke smelled like Vatican II. ;-)

"After all they are not all that sharp - they even fall for a group of kids faking a visit from the Virgin Mary calling them to..."(insert what Frawley is reading into those kids are claiming)"

...as opposed to the specifics which are all kinds of theological muddles. That's the problem, anyone can call for "prayer penance and turning back to God". yadda yadda yadda.

Claiming the Blessed Mother is doing so is quite another thing entirely. The Queen of Heaven doesn't make the sloppy mistakes these "kids" (now successful professional visionaries) do.

"Anyone one should be able to see thru that! Some are even foolish enough to become priest and nuns!"

All zero of them. :D

This is yet another example of the endless falsehoods that turn up surrounding the claims of the Medjugorje visionaries.

--Fr. Tomislav informed him: "The teenagers have decided to enter the religious life but are waiting for the moment that only they know.

Evidently implying all the teenagers, none excluded! Today everyone knows that these were simply stories."--


They were simply stories. How nice. Like their visions were simply stories. Like their homework excuses were simply stories. Like their lousy theology is what comes from teenagers telling simply stories.

"Too bad they don't look to the internet for the real deal! (much more convenient and cheaper than seeing first hand)"

Oh? So you've gone "seeing first hand" did you? ;-) Well! That changes everything.

Did you see The Blessed Mother appear at Medjugorje? Yes or no.

If yes, post a photo. If you can't, your claim is a fallacy of anecdotal evidence. You could just as easily claim you saw Elvis doing a waltz across the clouds with The Blessed Mother, too. "Cuz I.Can't Help... Fallin' In Love With.... Yooooooo..." :D

If you didn't see The Blessed Mother at Medjugorje, then you saw nothing.

You were just another tourist wandering around feeding your confirmation bias. Muslims are required in their lifetime to visit Mecca for a reason, Frawley. Ole' Mohammed was one sneaky SOB. He understood how religious tourism strengthens belief long before Medjugorje.

But why stop with the Hajj? Your argument about "seeing first hand" is the same one used every other far-out crank posting a selfie outside the Mayan ruins in Paleque, Mexico.

"These pyramids were totally built by aliens.I touched those stones! No human could move stuff like that. I was there! They even showed a space ship on the tomb of Pakal, just like on mah souvenir tee-shirt! "
frawley
Bravo, that is why I like you so much! I wasn't there, so how dare I say it might have smelled like incense, but you were also not thereand have determined it is a smoke bomb! Those silly young people....what do they know? Imagine wasting your time praying and celebrating Mass when they could be sitting at home taking cheap shots at the clergy on their computers? I am also in awe of your ability …More
Bravo, that is why I like you so much! I wasn't there, so how dare I say it might have smelled like incense, but you were also not thereand have determined it is a smoke bomb! Those silly young people....what do they know? Imagine wasting your time praying and celebrating Mass when they could be sitting at home taking cheap shots at the clergy on their computers? I am also in awe of your ability to see the grand conspiracy that has eluded Pope Benedicts commission. Not going to let those kids pull one over on ole Ultraviolet! All those years of watching lawyers shows on TV has certainly paid off! Please continue to share your thoughtful insights with those of us who are not that sharp.
Ultraviolet
"I wasn't there, so how dare I say it might have smelled like incense,"

Since you haven't shown that is IS incense, you can't say it smells like incense. ;-) Sarcasm requires a sound footing to work on, chum.

"but you were also not there and have determined it is a smoke bomb!"

It was a speculation, not a determination, a casual one at that. It might just as well (and probably more likely) …More
"I wasn't there, so how dare I say it might have smelled like incense,"

Since you haven't shown that is IS incense, you can't say it smells like incense. ;-) Sarcasm requires a sound footing to work on, chum.

"but you were also not there and have determined it is a smoke bomb!"

It was a speculation, not a determination, a casual one at that. It might just as well (and probably more likely) come from a smoke machine.

This is entirely too much smoke to come from a hand-held thurible. It's entirely too much smoke, even to come from one of the largest thuribles in the world, the one you referenced at the Cathedral in Santiago de Compostella. That's why I linked a photo.

So if it isn't incense smoke, what sort of smoke is it and what's producing it?

It's okay that you're a Medjugorje fanboy spoiling for a fight, but you're grasping at straws.

"Imagine wasting your time praying and celebrating Mass when they could be sitting at home taking cheap shots at the clergy on their computers?"

A shot isn't "cheap" if it's true, then it's a shot that's well-aimed. ;-)

And those young people could just as easily do their praying and celebrating of Mass in their home parishes. Since you brought this up, those young people could not only do their praying and celebrating of Mass in their home parishes, they could also donate the money they spent as tourists to a reputable Catholic charity.

Giving money to the poor wins more favour in the eyes of God than spending money on yourself, which is all these young people are doing.

Think of all the money they've spent on travel, on lodgings, on food, on souvenirs, all of which benefits only themselves.

Yes, that observation also applies to all of your visits as well. Young people might be forgiven their zeal and irreponsibility. What's your excuse? :D

"I am also in awe of your ability to see the grand conspiracy that has eluded Pope Benedicts commission."

Eluded? :P If the commission didn't rule in favor of thirty years worth of "visions", the material didn't elude them. They just didn't buy into it the way you did. :D

Speaking of eluded... it hasn't eluded me that you didn't answer my questions: Did you see The Blessed Mother appear at Medjugorje? Yes or no.

Do you have photos of her if you did? If so, post them. If not, concede you saw nothing every time you've been there.

"All those years of watching lawyers shows on TV has certainly paid off!"

Since neither of us are even discussing points of law, that's a Non Sequitur fallacy. Also an Ad Hominem.

That smart-aleck sarcasm is going to turn and bite you every time. ;-)

I'll tell you a secret, frawley. This kind of angry sarcasm only comes from sore losers. That isn't a cheap-shot, either. It's the truth. I've seen it here on GTV once before and exactly in this same form..

Some other "true believer" was going on about Bill Gates adding 4G mind-control nano-machines to vaccines. When I pointed out such things don't exist yet, they defended their views just as passionately as you did. When they ultimately were forced to recognize their fantasies were wrong, they responded the same way you are now.

I'm certain they still believe in Microsoft 4G nanomachines, but the facts don't support those beliefs and they know it. That's where the anger comes from. Now you're in the same uncomforatable situation with Medjugorje. Your repsonse is the same as theirs for an identical reason.

They wished to continue arguing, as you clearly do, but their only remaining option was absurdity. ;-)
frawley
Oh I am sorry, did I hit a nerve?
Ultraviolet
Sucks no, but I clearly have. ;-)

You can't support your beliefs and every time you've tried you've blown it. Heck, you even blew a discussion on smoke (pun intended). Sarcasm is all you've got left. Not a problem for me, I recognize the cause of it and it's entertaining.

Even the context is funny. Here you are, a repeat pilgrim to Medjugorje, praying there, enriching your spiritual life "…More
Sucks no, but I clearly have. ;-)

You can't support your beliefs and every time you've tried you've blown it. Heck, you even blew a discussion on smoke (pun intended). Sarcasm is all you've got left. Not a problem for me, I recognize the cause of it and it's entertaining.

Even the context is funny. Here you are, a repeat pilgrim to Medjugorje, praying there, enriching your spiritual life "first-hand", loading up on the usual souvenir prayer cards, studying the lives and teachings of these visionaries for the past thirty five years, and the moment somebody start factually discrediting their claims, what happens?

You throw a tantrum. You lash out day after day with the same shrill "wit" seen in sulky college kids when they're wrong and can't bring themselves to admit it.

Your behavior here is "first hand" testimony to the grace and blessings found at Medjugorje.

Oh yes, Frawley. That place has done you a world of good. :D
frawley
Wake up! You just got played like a fiddle and did not even pick up on it. Don't be playing checkers when you should be playing chess.
Ultraviolet
If a long stream of aggrieved sarcasm is your idea "playing" someone, you need to enroll in a good online conservatory like 4chan. Your instructors won't be as charitable as I've been.

See... you're supposed to make the other guy look bad and all you've done is face-plant on every point you've raised, sarcastic tone or not..

Now what I said about the effect Medjugorje had on you might have …More
If a long stream of aggrieved sarcasm is your idea "playing" someone, you need to enroll in a good online conservatory like 4chan. Your instructors won't be as charitable as I've been.

See... you're supposed to make the other guy look bad and all you've done is face-plant on every point you've raised, sarcastic tone or not..

Now what I said about the effect Medjugorje had on you might have been delivered sarcastically, but it's also true.

--as witnessed by this latest comment of yours.

Acting snippy doesn't mean you're playing anybody, amigo. It sounds exactly what it is: a sophmoric retreat into absurdity.

...because you don't know how to play at all. :D

Appropriately enough given your metaphor....
Alex A
Archbishop Hoser: New Mostar Bishop Will Help Recognize Medjugorje

@petrus100452> The work of the devil more likely! The number of visits to Medjugorje is irrelevant. X times any factor doesn't necessarily make it true. There is so much material available for research on, the so-called 'phenomena of Medjugorje', whether you would yourself, spend the time doing the research is of course, …More
Archbishop Hoser: New Mostar Bishop Will Help Recognize Medjugorje

@petrus100452> The work of the devil more likely! The number of visits to Medjugorje is irrelevant. X times any factor doesn't necessarily make it true. There is so much material available for research on, the so-called 'phenomena of Medjugorje', whether you would yourself, spend the time doing the research is of course, entirely up to you. Perhaps you might ponder on the words of Pope Francis when he queried; "Why would OBL spend every day relaying messages and on command from the alleged seers?" Maybe not the exact quote but the import should be clear enough. I concede, that there is no way the Church authorities can 'ban' the ill-informed 'pilgrims' from going to Medjugorje, not even the civil authorities would want that to be the case, given the money that is generated for the town. There you have it: Money! Not faith, not conversions, not unproven miracles. Money! Devils money!
Ultraviolet
They make DVDs of this nonsense? ...and what's with the smoke bomb? I've seen what a thurible does when Father really lays on the incense and it's nothing like this.
rhemes1582
Don't go there
mccallansteve
Non Catholic gargabe