Regardless of how many times it is alleged that OBL, the operative word is alleged, appears to whom claims it is so, does not of itself be the determining factor as to the veracity of such claims, nor so the personage, be they priest or laity. Likewise with claims of witnesses to apparent prodigies. Pre-Vatican 2, the church was far more prudent in its discernment concerning claims of visitations …More
Regardless of how many times it is alleged that OBL, the operative word is alleged, appears to whom claims it is so, does not of itself be the determining factor as to the veracity of such claims, nor so the personage, be they priest or laity. Likewise with claims of witnesses to apparent prodigies. Pre-Vatican 2, the church was far more prudent in its discernment concerning claims of visitations from heaven. Devils Advocate was a well- known character dispatched by the Vatican to test out the veracity of supernatural visitations. Even when his job was done the church took care and time in its deliberations. Post- Vatican 2, the Local Ordinary has the sole responsibility. He may or may nor form a committee to investigate such a claim, Equally, he may or may not accept the findings of such a committee, such being the case with the alleged Akita apparitions. This writer suggests that this modern form of discernment comes with numerous 'pit-falls' not of least being the bias of the Local Ordinary. One last point, how does one determine whether such claims of supernatural events occurring, be that from Heaven or Hell?
The local ordinary, the bishop of Split never approved. Any issues with the original spiritual director or the visions do not matter. It cannot be considered.
petrus100452
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Prayhard: you probably mean the bishop of Mostar...
Ludovic Denim
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It's Satan that is appearing in Medjugorge, be sure about this because it's not recognized by the Catholic Church and even the local bishops didn't want. One of them said it would be the worst sin he would have to live with in his life if he would do this.
There are enough apparitions given that they're linked. Blessed Virgin Mary gave the miraculous medal at Paris (1830) with the Two Hearts for …More
It's Satan that is appearing in Medjugorge, be sure about this because it's not recognized by the Catholic Church and even the local bishops didn't want. One of them said it would be the worst sin he would have to live with in his life if he would do this.
There are enough apparitions given that they're linked. Blessed Virgin Mary gave the miraculous medal at Paris (1830) with the Two Hearts for the Devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus and for the Devotion to her Immaculate Heart. She asked the Devotion later to Her Immaculate Heart in Portugal (1917). At Lourdes just before, she went to confirm the Dogma about her that was enacted by the Pope just 8 years before. Now, she asks another Dogma to be enacted about her role to Jesus Christ as Co-Redemptrix and Co-Mediatrix in her last apparition in Philippines that just was recognized in 2015 by the local bishops.
The fact is that there is a cover up about the 3rd Secret of Fatima. One can listen late Father Hesse on Youtube and read the famous books of Father Kramer, Father Gruner, and Chris Ferrara available for free (they sell them normally but the times are so grave) on the website of the Fatima Center.
There are enough apparitions given that they're linked. Blessed Virgin Mary gave the miraculous medal at Paris (1830) with the Two Hearts for the Devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus and for the Devotion to her Immaculate Heart. She asked the Devotion later to Her Immaculate Heart in Portugal (1917). At Lourdes just before, she went to confirm the Dogma about her that was enacted by the Pope just 8 years before. Now, she asks another Dogma to be enacted about her role to Jesus Christ as Co-Redemptrix and Co-Mediatrix in her last apparition in Philippines that just was recognized in 2015 by the local bishops.
The fact is that there is a cover up about the 3rd Secret of Fatima. One can listen late Father Hesse on Youtube and read the famous books of Father Kramer, Father Gruner, and Chris Ferrara available for free (they sell them normally but the times are so grave) on the website of the Fatima Center.
petrus100452
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Mary appeared during 54 (!) years - from 1664 till 1718 - to Benoite Rencurel in Laus, France. Recognized by the Chruch in 2008. So sometimes Mary does appear several years.
And why would Satan in Medjugorje bring so may people to conversion? So many people who start praying (again) and receiving the sacraments. Rather odd to say that Satan is appearing in Medjugorje.
Try it yourself: invoke the …More
Mary appeared during 54 (!) years - from 1664 till 1718 - to Benoite Rencurel in Laus, France. Recognized by the Chruch in 2008. So sometimes Mary does appear several years.
And why would Satan in Medjugorje bring so may people to conversion? So many people who start praying (again) and receiving the sacraments. Rather odd to say that Satan is appearing in Medjugorje.
Try it yourself: invoke the Queen of Peace who is appearing in Medjugorje and ask her to enlighten you. She will if you are sincere!
And why would Satan in Medjugorje bring so may people to conversion? So many people who start praying (again) and receiving the sacraments. Rather odd to say that Satan is appearing in Medjugorje.
Try it yourself: invoke the Queen of Peace who is appearing in Medjugorje and ask her to enlighten you. She will if you are sincere!
Ludovic Denim
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@petrus100452 first, put my name so that I can know that you replied to me because otherwise I will not be informed and could not come to check in order to give you my answer.
It's a sheer fact that Mary used to appear many times to the same seer like in Fatima, in Lourdes, in Rue du Bac at Paris, but it doesn't prove any apparitions that is not formally recognised by the Catholic Church and …More
@petrus100452 first, put my name so that I can know that you replied to me because otherwise I will not be informed and could not come to check in order to give you my answer.
It's a sheer fact that Mary used to appear many times to the same seer like in Fatima, in Lourdes, in Rue du Bac at Paris, but it doesn't prove any apparitions that is not formally recognised by the Catholic Church and Medjugorge is NOT recognised by the Catholic Church.
Satan is the most clever and beautiful angel, don't you know this ?? Of course, he knows his power is limited and soon finished and he wants people to convert at Medjugorge because it's not a full conversion there because it preaches indifferentism which is an heresy condemned by the Catechism of the Council of Trent !!!
It's not because peoples begin to pray and start to receive the sacraments that they will stay faithfuls and die faithfully. I can give you plenty of fake apparitions in Italy as examples that peoples can pray and receive the sacraments due to fake apparitions. Don't you know also that peoples at Lourdes saw at least 16 fake apparitions at another place than the grotto as Satan tried to delude the faithfuls. Only the apparitions to Saint Bernadette de Soubirous were true and were recognised as such by the Catholic Church. Satan is the great deceiver, you need to think about it and to keep it always in your memory otherwise it means that you're not humble. And peoples that are not humble can be deceived very easily...
I don't need to invoke the fake Queen of Peace as I know perfectly Our Lady of Lourdes, Our Lady of Pontmain, Our Lady of Fatima, Our Lady of La Salette, Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal (rue du Bac), Our Lady Quito, Our Lady of Guadalupe, Our Lady of Kibeho and others like those recognised by bishops only such as Our Lady of Akita or Our Lady of Lipa. Those that are faithful to apparitions not recognised by the Catholic Church are deluding themselves and want it so because Satan is very strong and they don't pray enough probably...
It's a sheer fact that Mary used to appear many times to the same seer like in Fatima, in Lourdes, in Rue du Bac at Paris, but it doesn't prove any apparitions that is not formally recognised by the Catholic Church and Medjugorge is NOT recognised by the Catholic Church.
Satan is the most clever and beautiful angel, don't you know this ?? Of course, he knows his power is limited and soon finished and he wants people to convert at Medjugorge because it's not a full conversion there because it preaches indifferentism which is an heresy condemned by the Catechism of the Council of Trent !!!
It's not because peoples begin to pray and start to receive the sacraments that they will stay faithfuls and die faithfully. I can give you plenty of fake apparitions in Italy as examples that peoples can pray and receive the sacraments due to fake apparitions. Don't you know also that peoples at Lourdes saw at least 16 fake apparitions at another place than the grotto as Satan tried to delude the faithfuls. Only the apparitions to Saint Bernadette de Soubirous were true and were recognised as such by the Catholic Church. Satan is the great deceiver, you need to think about it and to keep it always in your memory otherwise it means that you're not humble. And peoples that are not humble can be deceived very easily...
I don't need to invoke the fake Queen of Peace as I know perfectly Our Lady of Lourdes, Our Lady of Pontmain, Our Lady of Fatima, Our Lady of La Salette, Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal (rue du Bac), Our Lady Quito, Our Lady of Guadalupe, Our Lady of Kibeho and others like those recognised by bishops only such as Our Lady of Akita or Our Lady of Lipa. Those that are faithful to apparitions not recognised by the Catholic Church are deluding themselves and want it so because Satan is very strong and they don't pray enough probably...
petrus100452
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Ludivic Denim: I reacted to the title of this report ("Our Lady never appears for years") and I reacted to your statement that Satan would appear in Medjugorje. What makes you say that people do not fully convert in Medjugorje? This so called "indifferentism" is pure nonsense. Mary said that for God everybody is equal and that is a fully catholic truth that has nothing to do with "indifferentism".…More
Ludivic Denim: I reacted to the title of this report ("Our Lady never appears for years") and I reacted to your statement that Satan would appear in Medjugorje. What makes you say that people do not fully convert in Medjugorje? This so called "indifferentism" is pure nonsense. Mary said that for God everybody is equal and that is a fully catholic truth that has nothing to do with "indifferentism". I have been to Medjugorje more than fifty times (I am a priest) and I have witnessed many, many deep conversions. And I have seen how Jesus is loved in Medjugorje: so many true confessions, so much adoration of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, so many works of charity... I can only advice you to be a little bit careful with your judgment on Medjugorje. Even the Church says (in the latest statement of the pope) that the apparitions are stil under investigation. So the Church has not condemned these apparitions. And how would the Church approve pilgrimages to a place if she was convinced that these apparitions come from Satan? Moreover, history proves that bishops can be mistaken when it comes to apparitions... So if you don't want to invoke the Queen of Peace who appears in Medjugorje, at least leave Medjugorje to God because you are at risk that you oppose a work of God.
petrus100452
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Ludovic Denim: see above
Ludovic Denim
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You can't even put my name so that I can reply to you... We know that peoples do not fully convert in Medjugorge because of the fruits of Vatican 2. Peoples don't unmask the false church that hide the Catholic Church and go to tell that since they went to Medjugorge they have learnt about the apostasy and heresies made by the 2nd Vatican Council, and yourself certainly don't even know given that …More
You can't even put my name so that I can reply to you... We know that peoples do not fully convert in Medjugorge because of the fruits of Vatican 2. Peoples don't unmask the false church that hide the Catholic Church and go to tell that since they went to Medjugorge they have learnt about the apostasy and heresies made by the 2nd Vatican Council, and yourself certainly don't even know given that you must not have read Don Luigi Villa's book about Pope Paul 6 or John Paul 2, or yet listening Father Hesse.
If you're a priest, you must more than others obey to the law of the Church and not incite peoples to go to an apparition that is not recognised by the Church Herself !!! The Catholic Church has not allowed this apparitions, period. If you disobey, you want to drag souls with you in hell because you feel too much pride by deciding yourself what's good or not. Worse, you say yourself that Bishops can be mistaken by apparitions, how come you as a priest can't be mistaken... You're not even a Bishop and that the local Bishop that must approve it, not you !
If you're a priest, you must more than others obey to the law of the Church and not incite peoples to go to an apparition that is not recognised by the Church Herself !!! The Catholic Church has not allowed this apparitions, period. If you disobey, you want to drag souls with you in hell because you feel too much pride by deciding yourself what's good or not. Worse, you say yourself that Bishops can be mistaken by apparitions, how come you as a priest can't be mistaken... You're not even a Bishop and that the local Bishop that must approve it, not you !
