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Stop saying it's cheaper to build modernist eyesores.

It isn't.
Ultraviolet
"Jmy1975: "Brutalism is a form of modern architecture "
"Some idiot trying to be clever: "modernism includes far more than brutalism."


So you presented only one example of Modernism, a negative one, and some "idiot" showed why your statement gave a false impresson of Modernism.

Recheck your defintion of "idiot". :D
Jmy1975
@Ultraviolet awe :( well, modernism is a negative thing from a Catholic perspective. And we are talking on a Catholic site.
Ultraviolet
...about secular architecture which has no direct impact on Catholicism. These aren't supposed to be churches. If they were, then you'd have a point. They aren't.
Jmy1975
Hmm, since architects create churches and religious buildings, and as you know the Church is visbile, and as you SHOULD know, secularism is not a good thing, and certainly isn't "neutral" or unrelated to God, since God is the creator, then they do actually have an impact on Catholicism. Check out this evil little wonder, the Paul VI Audience Hall, built my Pier Nervi, a modernist who loved him …More
Hmm, since architects create churches and religious buildings, and as you know the Church is visbile, and as you SHOULD know, secularism is not a good thing, and certainly isn't "neutral" or unrelated to God, since God is the creator, then they do actually have an impact on Catholicism. Check out this evil little wonder, the Paul VI Audience Hall, built my Pier Nervi, a modernist who loved him some reinforced concrete. Of course, the Paul VI effort seems to be quite satanic as you can see
As is the sculpture of Jesus. Or you can look at the Cathedral of Los Angeles. Many examples.
Ultraviolet
"Hmm, since architects create churches and religious buildings..."

Architects design buildings, they don't create them. More importantly, when they design a Church, they do so according to the preferences of the client commissioning it. A client can ask an architect to design a "traditional" Church and the architect will comply (regardless of whatever personal aesthetic preferences they may …More
"Hmm, since architects create churches and religious buildings..."

Architects design buildings, they don't create them. More importantly, when they design a Church, they do so according to the preferences of the client commissioning it. A client can ask an architect to design a "traditional" Church and the architect will comply (regardless of whatever personal aesthetic preferences they may have)

Example built in 2000: St. Katheryn's, Hudson NH.

Certainly not a "modernist" structure by any architectural definition.. ;-)

"Since... and as you know... and as you SHOULD know... then..."

I love it when you stack your premises like dominos, Jimmy. It's always fun to give that first one a shove. ;-)

That was a simile, just in case you're wondering.

If you weren't, well lucky you. I'm feeling all charitable and helpful...I was going to say "tonight" and then I looked at the time. It's morning already. Ah, well. So it goes.

I do agree with you that modernism in Church architecture is awful.

But modernist secular architecture can be very beautiful and secular architecture is what this post is about.

If Seidenspinner was posting to criticize modernist Church architecture, their examples. would reflect that.

The Paul VI Audience chamber is a freakish example of pareidolia. The burden of proof for showing that was the architect's intent is on the person making the accusation.

The difference is between showing a hall looks like something and proving the architect intended it to look like something. Proving intent is notoriously difficult.

FM Shanky-Wanky beat his conviction for contacting a person masquerading as a prostitute (actually an undercover officer) on CityVibe, then showing up with condoms, lube, and cash,. then discussing prices, all because his attorneys argued the prosecution hadn't shown his intent. when he did so. :D

It took more than one reading of the (successful) appeal before I appreciated the full extent of his attorney's sheer fiendish brilliance. If FM Shanky-Wanky's attorney turns up on GTV and says Benedict is still pope, I'm sooo keeping my mouth shut.

Well... that's a bit of a fib. Call it an artistic license.

I'm going to take a deep breath, open up my bookmarks for Canon Law covering clerical (specifically Papal) resignations, chug a can of Red Bull, re-read his argument as the rush comes, and wipe that SOB all over the comments thread.

You might not appreciate such a performance today, but it's far more enjoyable when you see me doing it to someone else than being on the receiving end.

No joke. I have it on good authority (from someone who's in a position to know) GTV site traffic actually goes UP when I'm debating Benedict's resignation. He called it the "Gladiator Effect."..:D
Jmy1975
Now, Brutalism was very popular with far-left and communist societies. In fact, Marxism was part of the modernist movement. As usual, the Germans take a bad idea and made it worse. Fans of Marxism/Socialism/Communism believed that science, logic, and empirical evidence would show that economic model to be superiors to capitalism.

When it became evident it failed miserably post WW2, the far left …More
Now, Brutalism was very popular with far-left and communist societies. In fact, Marxism was part of the modernist movement. As usual, the Germans take a bad idea and made it worse. Fans of Marxism/Socialism/Communism believed that science, logic, and empirical evidence would show that economic model to be superiors to capitalism.

When it became evident it failed miserably post WW2, the far left Marxists embraced postmodernism as their political ideology.

Postmodernism was started by Kant, and later Heidegger, Nietzsche others . Those Germans are wrong on everything!

By embracing Postmodernism the Marxists could say they didn't lose, that could the tools used to judge Marxism were meaningless since everything is subjective, we can't know truth, words and everything are mere tools of power, etc., and only power matters.

And that is the story of the hell we are living in right now.
Jmy1975
Me: "Brutalism is a form of modern architecture "

Some idiot trying to be clever: "modernism includes far more than brutalism."

🤔

Interestingly modernism is primarily an Anglo-American idea, and postmodernism began as a German rejection of that idea (also called the enlightenment). Brutalism was pioneered/popularized by Swiss-French Le Corbusier. And the "International Style" dominant in the …More
Me: "Brutalism is a form of modern architecture "

Some idiot trying to be clever: "modernism includes far more than brutalism."

🤔

Interestingly modernism is primarily an Anglo-American idea, and postmodernism began as a German rejection of that idea (also called the enlightenment). Brutalism was pioneered/popularized by Swiss-French Le Corbusier. And the "International Style" dominant in the urban west is still popular.

What separates and distinguishes postmodernism is lack of rationality, function, and logic. It's proudly contradictory, ugly, abrupt, and nonsensical. It's only form is shamelessly will. A lot like a nutjob on this very site.
Ultraviolet
Brutalism might be part of modernism but modernism includes far more than brutalism. A similar parallel exists with English (both spoken and written). Britain may be part of the English-speaking world, but the English-speaking world encompasses far more than Britain (or the USA). ;-)
Jmy1975
Brutalism is a form of modern architecture. Stripped of any decor that inspires or creates longing for the metaphysical/religious, it is basic function. It's bland. It's boring. Postmodern architecture is what you're seeing here. It's even worse. Here the architecture is a big F You to traditional architecture and modern architecture, it is as abstract and irrational as can be and its goal is …More
Brutalism is a form of modern architecture. Stripped of any decor that inspires or creates longing for the metaphysical/religious, it is basic function. It's bland. It's boring. Postmodern architecture is what you're seeing here. It's even worse. Here the architecture is a big F You to traditional architecture and modern architecture, it is as abstract and irrational as can be and its goal is power/defiance and will. Everything is relative, function is irrelevant.

www.selmancelik.info/…/has-postmodern-…
Jmy1975
I mean look at this crap.
philosopher
Soulless disorder! It is reflective of a culture that rages against the true, the good, and the beautiful.
eticacasanova
2) Of course, modernist architectural garbage should NOT exist, but the buildings of the comparisson proposed are not very "ornamented" as, for insrance, a Gothic cathedral, that is full of high and low relief. I know that, today, there's no irnaments, because they suppose belief, theymean something,hence the death of ornament in the faithless society.... But it would be interesting a comparisson…More
2) Of course, modernist architectural garbage should NOT exist, but the buildings of the comparisson proposed are not very "ornamented" as, for insrance, a Gothic cathedral, that is full of high and low relief. I know that, today, there's no irnaments, because they suppose belief, theymean something,hence the death of ornament in the faithless society.... But it would be interesting a comparisson including this sublime element
eticacasanova
1) Square meters?