Dante Alighieri
7434
Stop saying the Latin Mass is ‘more reverent’
Make sure you read the comments!

Stop saying the Latin Mass is ‘more reverent’

The way we talk about the liturgy matters, and to describe something as “irreverent” assumes a level of malicious intent on the part of worshipers that …
Dante Alighieri
John A Cassani
It’s kind of funny to see how there are arguments about what sort of head coverings women wear at Mass, as though anyone really cares about the style. Certainly, the mantilla is favored these days, but, in the most recent days when head coverings were still normative, my understanding is that most American women wore hats. The other thing that needs to be considered when evaluating a TLM parish is …More
It’s kind of funny to see how there are arguments about what sort of head coverings women wear at Mass, as though anyone really cares about the style. Certainly, the mantilla is favored these days, but, in the most recent days when head coverings were still normative, my understanding is that most American women wore hats. The other thing that needs to be considered when evaluating a TLM parish is that a large percentage of the parishioners come from far away, and do not belong to the same secular community, as is the case with territorial parishes. They come all this way, seeking a sort of reverence that they can’t find elsewhere. In fact, by now, in pretty much any diocese where there is interest in the TLM, there have been priests ordained over the last decade or so, at least, who would be more than happy to provide pastoral care to TLM worshippers. Back in the ‘80s or ‘90s, bishops had to find priests who were willing, which often meant pressing retired and infirm priests, who didn’t even want to, to celebrate the TLM. Nowadays, it is hard to attribute the new restrictions to anything but malice, because young priests want to help.
Paripatetic Curmudgeon
This article admits that it has lost the argument with the mariachi Mass analogy. If it's all about "inculturation" then ultimately anything can be incorporated. There's no discussion of an objective standard, so it's all relative.
By any reasonable standard, the Latin Mass is more reverent in itself, ceteris paribus. As @Jo Santoss notes, there's some reverence that the laity bring of themselves …More
This article admits that it has lost the argument with the mariachi Mass analogy. If it's all about "inculturation" then ultimately anything can be incorporated. There's no discussion of an objective standard, so it's all relative.

By any reasonable standard, the Latin Mass is more reverent in itself, ceteris paribus. As @Jo Santoss notes, there's some reverence that the laity bring of themselves. Charity is part of the equation, so a Latin Mass community could be less reverent than a Novus Ordo community due to a lack of Charity in the Latin Mass community. I have yet to go to a Latin Mass community where this is the case, but it's possible.
Darice Henriques
Agree, the sociable behavior of laity cannot be the standard used to measure Mass.
I do not have a TLM where i live, have to make do with the NO. After Mass, I try and stay back to do 15 mins of Thanksgiving but almost everyone else goes outside to chat and socialize. People think our NO Mass is friendly and welcoming.
The dress code at our NO Mass is anything goes - men can wear shorts, women can …More
Agree, the sociable behavior of laity cannot be the standard used to measure Mass.

I do not have a TLM where i live, have to make do with the NO. After Mass, I try and stay back to do 15 mins of Thanksgiving but almost everyone else goes outside to chat and socialize. People think our NO Mass is friendly and welcoming.

The dress code at our NO Mass is anything goes - men can wear shorts, women can wear minis, tight tops, see-through clothes and display cleavage/backs/mid-riffs. A few come dressed in work-out clothes, straight from a run or they will be going for a run after Mass. There's even a man who receives Holy Communion dressed in women's clothes. Women can do the readings and notices even if they're wearing deep-cut sleeveless tops or short skirts/dresses. I can totally understand how someone would find modest, long dresses in sober colors and men in suits cold. Informal wear is always more friendly and casual 😉
Jo Santoss
Ive recently gone to both in three different churches. First A strict Latin mass where the women wore to the T the traditional long dark blue (almost Amish looking) dress and long lace head covering etc.. The men all in suits. It felt cold. The people were not friendly to outsiders. Then to a college campus Latin mass with a mix of peoples some in veils and regular cloths, some in traditional, some …More
Ive recently gone to both in three different churches. First A strict Latin mass where the women wore to the T the traditional long dark blue (almost Amish looking) dress and long lace head covering etc.. The men all in suits. It felt cold. The people were not friendly to outsiders. Then to a college campus Latin mass with a mix of peoples some in veils and regular cloths, some in traditional, some just regular attire. The mass was beautiful I enjoyed it. And of course our regular N O mass which I always enjoy. To be honest I felt a closeness to God in the college campus Latin mass that brought me to tears His presence was profound that I did not feel at the Traditional Latin Mass that felt like it was missing something? I am a regular N O mass goer but I do wish they would bring back some of the Pre-vatican 2 prayer and chants, and receiving on the toung on your knees. A mix of the two would be perfect.
Dante Alighieri
@Jo Santoss the 1962 Missal is used because Pope Pius and Pope John XXIII both made changes to the Latin Mass, particularly the Holy Week liturgy. If they simply took the vernacular from the facing pages and made that the New Mass, we would not be in this Liturgy War predicament we are now in, with even the Pope taking politicized schismatic positions against the other side. If there needed to be …More
@Jo Santoss the 1962 Missal is used because Pope Pius and Pope John XXIII both made changes to the Latin Mass, particularly the Holy Week liturgy. If they simply took the vernacular from the facing pages and made that the New Mass, we would not be in this Liturgy War predicament we are now in, with even the Pope taking politicized schismatic positions against the other side. If there needed to be more adjustments, like the repetitions in the Penitential Prayer, then they could have done so, little by little. Right now, the Novus Ordo could use a few adjustments, absolutely including the location of the Holy Handshake right in the midst of the consecration. Move it to the beginning or the end of the Mass where it logically belongs. Anyway, no adjustments can be made because everything is politicized and the powers that be want to stamp out any deviation from the new norm. We'll probably have to wait another 60 years before there are any significant changes. There was controversy when Pope Benedict insisted on the last batch of fixes to heretical insertions, like He gave His life "for all" rather than "for many." Not to mention "seen and unseen" instead of "visible and invisible" in the Creed. Really? I cannot "see" Paris, but I am pretty sure it exists! They say the translation was a rushed job, but that excuse is ridiculous because the translation was right on the facing page of the Missal, and still is! They can fix the NO but they won't until we are all dead and buried, unless attendance continues to fall. Maybe they will hire more clowns and buy more balloons. And the one thing that was not mentioned in the article is that if they cracked down on the un-reverent Masses, particularly the ones we see on GTV in Germany and (now) France and Chicago, people might get the idea they are not sanctioned and protected by the Archbishops and the Pope. They have to want those trends to continue, but why? The smoke of Satan!
John A Cassani
When the current edition of the NO was being prepared, then prefect of the CDW, Cardinal Medina, proposed that the traditional offertory prayers be included as an option. This was not adopted, but they have been added to the Anglican ordinariate liturgy. Many consider the offertory to be the single worst deviation from the proper theology of sacrifice. @Dante Alighieri I would say that, in addition …More
When the current edition of the NO was being prepared, then prefect of the CDW, Cardinal Medina, proposed that the traditional offertory prayers be included as an option. This was not adopted, but they have been added to the Anglican ordinariate liturgy. Many consider the offertory to be the single worst deviation from the proper theology of sacrifice. @Dante Alighieri I would say that, in addition to the fact that Pius XII and John XXIII made changes (quite major ones, truth be told), the reason why the 1962 edition is what has been mandated for use is that Marcel Lefebvre chose the 1962 Missal for SSPX use after Rome tried to make the NO obligatory for them. They had been using the 1965 missal prior to this, as the 1965 edition is the last true edition of the 1570 missal, albeit with some VII reforms.