"you have still not disclosed how you obtained the transcript of the conversation between Ivan and his prefect in the 1980's that you reference above."Still
have not? I only linked it up for you the last time we discussed this subject. Which was like... all of two days ago.First Time: Francis Intervenes at Medjugorie Festival
The question you probably meant
to ask is: Why didn't the site
disclose how THEY obtained a transcript of the conversation between Ivan and his prefect in the 1980's.
...and the answer to that question is they did
. You just weren't paying attention. It's right at the start of the article.
The Spiritual Vocations of the "Seers of Medjugorje"
Diocese of Mostar-Duvno
March 5, 2010
(The present article was published in the official Bulletin of the Dioceses of Mostar-Duvno and Trebinje-Mrkan, 1/2010, pp. 114-122, March 5, 2010. This English translation was prepared on the basis of the original text in Croatian and the Italian edition published on the diocesan website.)
---"Do you reject the finding of Pope Benedicts commission that overwhelmingly found the first 10 days of the Medjugorje apparitions supernatural? "
I'm surprised you didn't mention the recent "finding" of Pope Francis, delivered while slurping his soup. :P
First ten days, huh? And the next ten? And the thirty YEARS that have followed? You've read enough of my comments by now to realize I'm going to spot a fallacy of composition right away.
The Church's official opinion is this:
"Until such time as the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith releases its findings, the 1991 determination of the Yugoslav Bishops Conference of non constat de supernaturalitate ("It is undetermined at this time if it is of supernatural origin"
) still stands, and the Holy See considers this judgement still operative "
I accept THAT finding because THAT is the official position of The Church. The recommendation
of a commission hasn't changed that.
Technically, they were discussing only the first seven instances, but ten
sounds bigger, doesn't it?
A commission on Medjugorje established in 2010 by Pope Benedict XVI and chaired by Cardinal Camillo Ruini voted 13-1 to confirm the supernatural origin of the first seven occurrences of the apparition only. In addition,
The commission recommends
that the first 7 days of the apparitions be approved, and that the Medjugorje be turned into a pontifical sanctuary. The commission made no recommendations about the any of the apparitions which occurred after the first 7 days
...and that's how a fallacy of composition crashes and burns. :D
Then there's the kind of facepalm stuff like this... (also from the wiki article linked above)
--In 2009 Father Tomislav Vlasic, the former "spiritual director" to the six visionaries was laicised at his own request by Pope Benedict XVI a year after he was placed under investigation over allegations that he exaggerated the apparitions
and had engaged in sexual relations with a nun. Vlasic was under formal investigation for alleged "dubious doctrine, the manipulation of consciences, suspect mysticism
and disobedience towards legitimately issued orders".--
If Fr. Vlasic was selling Pachamama visionaries, you'd be all over that like a rash -and with just cause. But since you believe in this instance, those kinds of discrediting little facts just get ignored.
Allah fails at doing math while explaining inheritance law? Allahu Akbar! The Quran is still all true and still comes from Allah!
Now, of course, The Church is in an era where it has a "saint factory" churning out beatifications, all officially valid, so it's possible the Medjugorje fans will ultimately benefit from similar standards.
Pope Francis says "good things are happening at Medjugorje"
, slurp, slurp, slurp.
When has our current pontiff EVER worried about the fine points of theology? Much less wading through thirty years of feel-good, theologically flawed nonsense from these "visionaries"?
Good things happen in Mormonism., too. Big, stable families. very solid "faith-based" social culture. Oh? Joseph Smith said people live on the moon and the surface of the sun? But... look at all the good happening!
You don't have to worry. Our current pontiff assigned Archbishop Hoser to the job, and the guy's probably gonna rubber-stamp the whole circus as legit.
It's a great tourist trap and brings in a bucket of cash. More importantly, a steady stream of false "Marian" teachings will dilute Church even further and that makes everyone
The God Of Surprises.
It's kinda funny in a way. The same people who scathingly denounce Francis for Pachamama-apostasy will be the first ones citing his official Pontifical declaration in favour of Medjugorje.
Isn't that right, Frawley? ;-)