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Hard Facts: Catholicism Collapsed Because of Vatican II

French historian Guillaume Cuchet analyses in his 2018 book How Our World Stopped Being Christian the collapse of Western Catholicism in the 20th …
Ralph Alexander Michael Curtis
Vatican II was long in the planning by the enemies of the Church.
Catholic Conspiracy and the Alta Vendita (Ep 24)
Hugh N. Cry
Proof is in the pudding.
P. O'B
Agree. (But the four last things are Death, Judgment, Heaven, and Hell.)
Dante Alighieri
That's a difficult proposition to maintain. In 1961 calling an ecumenical council would not have appeared to be evil, and in fact, as far as I can tell from my readings, nobody did call it an evil gathering of malicious-intending bishops. Nobody. It was completely legitimate. Unless you find something unpublished Padre Pio allegedly said to someone in private, unconfirmed.
SHJ-IHM
Actually I remember hearing that many tradition-minded bishops thought it was a bad idea at the time. There was no specific heresy that it would deal with, nor any other typical reason for calling the council. There was already agitation against the liturgy and dogma, and the council was not intended to correct any of that.
Seabass
Yes, a group of prelates published a book under the pen name Maurice Penay called the "Plot Against the Church". It was a warning about the upcoming council.
Seabass
Dante Alighieri
@SHJ-IHM The reference is to the fear that anything can happen in a council, so there was anxiety, but all the (at the time) good bishops voted in near unanimity. The council even afterwards did not seem heretical.
Dante Alighieri
@Seabass I had the book and read parts of it. Do not know what to think of it. True regarding how many Jews for example were involved in the short lived Hungarian communist experiment before WW2, which I had to look up since it is not well known, but overall, a cursory look at the book would make a normal person today to see it as extremely antisemitic, and I really am not so sure the Jews are the …More
@Seabass I had the book and read parts of it. Do not know what to think of it. True regarding how many Jews for example were involved in the short lived Hungarian communist experiment before WW2, which I had to look up since it is not well known, but overall, a cursory look at the book would make a normal person today to see it as extremely antisemitic, and I really am not so sure the Jews are the cause of all the world's evil. Some here might disagree, eg regarding their involvement in Freemasonry, but I'm not going there myself. So, a very very tiny cult like group thought ill of the council.
One more comment from Dante Alighieri
Dante Alighieri
@Seabass I think you can look up the book you referenced yourself. It is not "a warning about the upcoming council," but a screed against the Jews. It might be correct in many of its facts, but I am not sure what it has to do with the council, although it was supposed to have been written anonymously by anti-council clerics. Maybe John XXIII said some favorable things about them, he did alter the …More
@Seabass I think you can look up the book you referenced yourself. It is not "a warning about the upcoming council," but a screed against the Jews. It might be correct in many of its facts, but I am not sure what it has to do with the council, although it was supposed to have been written anonymously by anti-council clerics. Maybe John XXIII said some favorable things about them, he did alter the Latin Mass to remove the reference to the "perfidious Jews." Also in the council documents, some positive things are said about the Jews. But the book is a history of (alleged?) Jewish conspiracies against the Church. I think the book says Arius was a converted Jew, that's an interesting tidbit that I never heard before, do not know if it's true or not, could be, but life is short and I do not have time to verify every fact. By the way, Saint John of the Cross and St Teresa of Avila were from Jewish families which had converted to Catholicism.
Seabass
12 Cardinals is not a 'cult group'.
Seabass
And my whole point in mentioning the book was to point out to you that indeed there were high level objections to the coucil at the time, regardless of if you personally may care for them.
Dante Alighieri
@Seabass Read the vote tallies on the documents ratified at Vatican II. The bishops voting were in the 2000 to 2500 range. And there was near unanimity in the acceptance. You can look it up, but usually only 100 bishops voted against. So yes, 12 is a fringe cult group.
Seabass
Pfft
rhemes1582
Hard facts II Bishops that continue to persecute their priests. and laity for desiring the liturgy, and liturgical practices of our Catholic ancestors before Vat2 are participating in the destruction of the Catholic Faith.
Bishops: Please in the name of Jesus stop persecuting the Church.
For those Bishops protecting the Faith: Thank You, and Deo GratiasMore
Hard facts II Bishops that continue to persecute their priests. and laity for desiring the liturgy, and liturgical practices of our Catholic ancestors before Vat2 are participating in the destruction of the Catholic Faith.

Bishops: Please in the name of Jesus stop persecuting the Church.
For those Bishops protecting the Faith: Thank You, and Deo Gratias
Jeffrey Ade
It started when the Holy Father did not consecrate Russia and fulfill Our Lady of Fatima's requests!
Cassandra Laments
Spot on and it speeded up when the Third Secret wasn't revealed in 1960, when all should have become clearer - presumably after the VII Council had been was announced the previous year.
Jeffrey Ade
@Cassandra Laments Exactly! I find it curious some want to point their finger at Francis, when this has been going on for a long time. Are they trying to draw our attention away from the real cause of our Chastisement?
Cassandra Laments
Well, I suppose there are plenty of people who haven't yet delved into the history of the last few decades and genuinely think that everything was fine before Francis and that it is he not VII which is the only problem. I think though that there are also plenty (probably the vocal majority) who are indeed trying to mislead the first group. I'm not sure how many people would fall into the third group …More
Well, I suppose there are plenty of people who haven't yet delved into the history of the last few decades and genuinely think that everything was fine before Francis and that it is he not VII which is the only problem. I think though that there are also plenty (probably the vocal majority) who are indeed trying to mislead the first group. I'm not sure how many people would fall into the third group of those who know the real reasons and acknowledge them!!!
Hound of Heaven
This is so apparent that it defies credibility that even the perceived 'more orthodox' clergy and hierarchy are seriously remiss when they do not openly acknowledge, at the very least, most of these 'rotten fruits' which are the direct result of Vatican II, and the perverse use of the council to 'elbow in' and implement changes never even contain in the council documents themselves.