Rafał_Ovile
Stonka as Father Hesse said one must prove any error a pope is accused of, including cowardice. You neither know the circumstances nor his intention in the heart... If you get Socci's book then you'll may be able to read in between the lines and facts that BXVI's move not to completely resign was well "calculated"... as he claimed it to be discerned with God. And to the later disappointment of …More
Stonka as Father Hesse said one must prove any error a pope is accused of, including cowardice. You neither know the circumstances nor his intention in the heart... If you get Socci's book then you'll may be able to read in between the lines and facts that BXVI's move not to completely resign was well "calculated"... as he claimed it to be discerned with God. And to the later disappointment of his enemies...
Rafał_Ovile
Stonka your accusation against pp BXVI should rather be forwarded towards Princes who didn't resist publicly 1 attack when BXVI was multiple times "viscously" devoured by the wolves. Prophecies are not my strong point... However, one prophecy certainly fulfilled is the one in his first homily asking for prayer and predicting he will be attacked by the "wolves".
One more comment from Rafał_Ovile
Rafał_Ovile
BrTom your conclusion would be logical if there was no existence of another person whom the Hierarchy and lay Catholics would title as "pope". Reality is therefore contrasting your statement which breaks the law of non-contradiction. If Pope Benedict XVI dies then the problem of two people being titled popes will cease to exist. Nevertheless speculative reasoning doesn't add any value to …More
BrTom your conclusion would be logical if there was no existence of another person whom the Hierarchy and lay Catholics would title as "pope". Reality is therefore contrasting your statement which breaks the law of non-contradiction. If Pope Benedict XVI dies then the problem of two people being titled popes will cease to exist. Nevertheless speculative reasoning doesn't add any value to present reality...
BrTomFordeOFMCap
Rafał_Ovile I do not doubt your sincerity and I will give you credit for praying for Francis. But if Francis is the "highest legislator" (if I understand you correctly, the sentence is far from clear) he is so because he is pope. That's my sole point. My question remains: What will you do when Benedict dies?
Uncle Joe
Rafał_Ovile
BrTom Do you not want to see the growing crisis and chaos inside the Church? Even liberal Catholics are starting to worry. The truth might strike a soul at first but enormously strengthens it in the end. Remember Fr. Pio? When confrères admonished him being worried about his outbursts in confessionals. Penitents left hurt but returned converted with gratitude for hard truth which striked them …More
BrTom Do you not want to see the growing crisis and chaos inside the Church? Even liberal Catholics are starting to worry. The truth might strike a soul at first but enormously strengthens it in the end. Remember Fr. Pio? When confrères admonished him being worried about his outbursts in confessionals. Penitents left hurt but returned converted with gratitude for hard truth which striked them earlier. We laymen need courageous witnesses of truth.

If you name one sede-vacantist or modernist who considers BXVI as pope than I will award your merits. A person holding a viewpoint attributing munus to Holy Father Benedict XVI is neither rebel of sede-vacantism nor modernism but prays for pope and does for Francis at each Holy Mass. This position doesn't reject the fact of other highest legislator being. However his decisions, intentions which are against Depositum Fidei do not bind in conscience a Catholic. For i.e. allowing bigamists to Holy Communion...

Consider the fact that there is Holy Father at the Cross, who decided to take up Cross on February 27, 2013. Therefore, a consecrated man may pray aloud or in silence depending upon circumstances. For i.e. spokesmen of our archdiocese has called to pray for BXVI last October. No Hierarch has condemned him ... Sursum Corda!
BrTomFordeOFMCap
Rafał_Ovile So now I am a participant in "a scheme to cover up truth"! As one of my teachers used to say "the thick plottens!" Will you end up including the whole world in a conspiracy theory just so you can claim to be right? Or will you finally accept that just because senior clerics admit that Benedict's situation is anomalous is not the same as admitting that he is still pope. I fear you do …More
Rafał_Ovile So now I am a participant in "a scheme to cover up truth"! As one of my teachers used to say "the thick plottens!" Will you end up including the whole world in a conspiracy theory just so you can claim to be right? Or will you finally accept that just because senior clerics admit that Benedict's situation is anomalous is not the same as admitting that he is still pope. I fear you do not appreciate how dangerous your theorzing is to weaker souls who might be lead into sedevacantism. What will you do when Benedict dies? Who will then be pope for you? Will you hold your own conclave and have yourself declared 'bishop of Rome and pope of the universal Church' just so you can be sure who is pope?
SvataHora
Pope and Antipope! - Papst und Gegenpapst!
Rafał_Ovile
BrTomFordeOFMCap may be you are frustrated because you participate in a scheme to cover up truth and reject evidence undermining your claim advanced through sophistry. Unfortunately, the problem of 2 popes is and proof exists. Even Churchmen have considered this viewpoint and analyzed. For. i.e. Cardinal Burke, Brandmuller, Canonist Stefano Violi etc. Therefore running away and pretending …More
BrTomFordeOFMCap may be you are frustrated because you participate in a scheme to cover up truth and reject evidence undermining your claim advanced through sophistry. Unfortunately, the problem of 2 popes is and proof exists. Even Churchmen have considered this viewpoint and analyzed. For. i.e. Cardinal Burke, Brandmuller, Canonist Stefano Violi etc. Therefore running away and pretending that your "stepfather" is the only father while your "biological father" still lives is disrespectful to the intellect of an adversary...
BrTomFordeOFMCap
Rafał_Ovile I have no fury against you but mild frustration. As far as I know even a bishop can't excommunicate you by twitter - there has to be a formal declaration. As I pointed out there automatic excommunications but only for very specific crimes. One cannot assume an excommunication. Check out the canonist Ed Peters on the matter, very clear.
To my central objection: It does not matter what …More
Rafał_Ovile I have no fury against you but mild frustration. As far as I know even a bishop can't excommunicate you by twitter - there has to be a formal declaration. As I pointed out there automatic excommunications but only for very specific crimes. One cannot assume an excommunication. Check out the canonist Ed Peters on the matter, very clear.
To my central objection: It does not matter what titles Bendecit XVI now gets they're honorary. To reassert the Church's own discipline and tradition: one bishop to a see, the see of Rome is occupied not by Benedict who freely left it and is now legally occupied by Francis (who was welcomed and recognised by Benedict). Francis is Pope in name and reality and all your attempts to argue otherwise are flawed.
Rafał_Ovile
Padre Padre I discern you are already one of Saints from Gallen however please don't "bind-up heavy and hard-to-bear burdens and lay them on the shoulders of people" to mystify the fruit of St Gallen's mafia.

BrTom 1. Even Jesuit liberals write and title Benedict XVI a "Pope"in accordance with reality. 2. Excommunication in some circumstances is "ipso facto" not necessarily declarative. I.e. …More
Padre Padre I discern you are already one of Saints from Gallen however please don't "bind-up heavy and hard-to-bear burdens and lay them on the shoulders of people" to mystify the fruit of St Gallen's mafia.

BrTom 1. Even Jesuit liberals write and title Benedict XVI a "Pope"in accordance with reality. 2. Excommunication in some circumstances is "ipso facto" not necessarily declarative. I.e. murder of unborn child in the mother's womb. 3. Mr Jose Galat whose person has less influence than Socci's being close to Rome was "twittered" by local Bishop to "shut up" for the similar viewpoint. Only truth will set you free. However you should stop being furious and cry against someone whenever he says "a cow has 2 horns. or there are two popes" [Vatican to house two Popes for first time as Benedict returns]
Padre, perdónalos porque no saben lo que dicen
@Rafał_Ovile
Beware of what is read and to whom it is read. Where do you remain simple as a dove but astute as a snake?You do not have to be so foolish or naive to fall into those things.And there are no "two popes", only one is, the other is EMERITUS, retired.
BrTomFordeOFMCap
Rafał_Ovile There are none so blind as those who will not see.... While I do not agree with the HF about the serious evils that afflict the world today (there are 7 billion people in nearly 200 countries with many variables so youth unemployment and elder loneliness are localised problems) I again take issue with your assertion of 'two popes'. There's only one bishop of Rome and therefore only …More
Rafał_Ovile There are none so blind as those who will not see.... While I do not agree with the HF about the serious evils that afflict the world today (there are 7 billion people in nearly 200 countries with many variables so youth unemployment and elder loneliness are localised problems) I again take issue with your assertion of 'two popes'. There's only one bishop of Rome and therefore only one Pope. Francis has the job whether you or I or anyone else likes it or not.
Excommunication is a canonical penalty that results either from a very serious crime (very few canonical crimes result in it) or is the penalty applied by the judges after a canonical trial. So, probably, Socci isn't excommunicated because no can be bothered to launch a case against him not because he's right.
Rafał_Ovile
Padre In Antonio Socci's book there is a comparison table of contradictory teaching of Francis and Pope Benedict XVI. Both Francis is aware of the book and Cardinal Burke who read this book. And Socci was neither excommunicated nor judged as you have done with De Profundis.
Catholics need truth because 2 or more popes being, what we now experience, is against Church teaching therefore only one …More
Padre In Antonio Socci's book there is a comparison table of contradictory teaching of Francis and Pope Benedict XVI. Both Francis is aware of the book and Cardinal Burke who read this book. And Socci was neither excommunicated nor judged as you have done with De Profundis.
Catholics need truth because 2 or more popes being, what we now experience, is against Church teaching therefore only one pope is true an others are always anti-popes...
tbswv
Don't forget to put "saint" in the Roman Catholic Church column.
Padre, perdónalos porque no saben lo que dicen
Go better and pray that prayer (De Profundis) to shorten your days in a sure and severe purgatory.
Padre, perdónalos porque no saben lo que dicen
It is foolish to compare the ideas of a Pope, opposing those of another Pope to find the supposed "heresy", the supposed "error" and still qualify of "Anti Pope".