Ultraviolet
Such "originals" are (from Wiki) "described by the Vatican as laughably poor and wholly unconvincing frauds." -thus reconciling why Mr. Potato Head doesn't look anything like the Shroud Of Turin.
tearlach
There's two veils, only one is the real one and original, the other one is by no means the face of our Lord; if you can tell the difference between the face or our Lord, and Mr. Potato head, God bless.
iwirawan
Rubbish, St Padre Pio went bi locate there before he died. It may not be "Veronica" but Holy Face of Manoppello.
illuminadomine.com/…/servant-of-god-…
Ultraviolet
" if you can tell the difference between the face or our Lord, and Mr. Potato head, God bless." I'd like to believe most people are blessed by God with that capacity @tearlach If a picture of Mr. Potato Head is placed in a fancy frame and hung up in a Catholic building, it does not become the original Veil of Veronica.

I would ALSO like to believe devout Catholics are more familiar with sufferi…More
" if you can tell the difference between the face or our Lord, and Mr. Potato head, God bless." I'd like to believe most people are blessed by God with that capacity @tearlach If a picture of Mr. Potato Head is placed in a fancy frame and hung up in a Catholic building, it does not become the original Veil of Veronica.

I would ALSO like to believe devout Catholics are more familiar with sufferings of Our Lord Jesus than you are, that they've read the Gospels and remembered AT LEAST the basics... what happened and what didn't.

"And when they had plaited a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee and mocked him, saying Hail, King of the Jews!" Matt; 27:29, Mark: 15:17 and John: 19:2, 5.

That is Gospel truth and incontrovertible. That happened exactly as it was written. I'm certain we can agree on that much.

Jesus had a crown of thorns forced on his head. Popular art depicts that crown as a kind of wreath around His brow, which may not be historically accurate. The wounds depicted on the Shroud of Turin are consistent with a "cap" of thorns. Since a crown is a head covering denoting rank, a cap covering the brow and the scalp is still consnsitent with the Gospels. The effects of that crown were horrific.

www.booksbyljwilliams.com/…/medical-details…

"On the shroud there are sections along the head showing blood flow and the hair is saturated with dried blood."

Look at Mr. Potato Head Jesus. There is no scarring or blood flow either on his brow or on his scalp. No evidence of the crown of thorns in ANY form. This contradicts the Gospels.

There is no mention of Veronica wiping the face of Jesus in any Gospel. If it happened, it was not recorded by any of the four Evangelists. Very strange since this would have been one of Jesus' last miracles.before His death, if not -the- last.

Historically, this story didn't even appear until the Middle Ages which was a time that saw the creation of many Christian legends and myths.
tearlach
Historically, many things in the Catholic Church are out of place, yet we believe them because of faith starting with the deluge, and other things mentioned that chronically speaking make no sense at all.

So is sin that continued after the flood, when supposedly God ended sin, yet it continued, it does not make sense, but we are not to question that, nor we are to question the giants, nor we …More
Historically, many things in the Catholic Church are out of place, yet we believe them because of faith starting with the deluge, and other things mentioned that chronically speaking make no sense at all.

So is sin that continued after the flood, when supposedly God ended sin, yet it continued, it does not make sense, but we are not to question that, nor we are to question the giants, nor we are to question the fire from the sky that fell in Sodom and Gomorrah, nor we are to question if Enoch was truly taken to heaven or Elijah, and many other things like how the red sea was parted.

So in other words unless we have faith there's no possible way to explain these occurrences, faith allows you to see and to believe. have you taken the time to compare the veils? One f them is the original one.

Now in regards to faith if you don't believe it's fine, you do not commit sin, thank God. Same if you do not believe in private revelations of Saints and Blessed people, if you ever read at least some of them or one of them in regards to our Lord. I'm not going to dispute your faith, so why are you so upset disputing mine?

So I'll throw a pearl for you and let's see if you do what the Lord says in Mat 7, I was an atheist, and God, nobody else, was the one who convinced me he existed, just like Gideon I asked him for things no human beings would be able to do, and that could not be a coincidence, just like Gideon I asked for things that only God could do, and nobody else, like changing the weather on specific days in seasons that were impossible.

Another token or pearl, when God touched my heart the first thing he asked me was if I was willing to surrender all the human wisdom I acquire throughout my entire life, I said yes.

That moment was the most beautiful and wonderful in my entire life, and just like Saint Maria Faustina, I also had an experience or experiences as she had, and she describes, I understand her completely as I've witnessed that myself. I never asked for that, I never believed in such things.

Now you don't have to believe me at all. But I am today a Catholic, not the fanatic paranoid kind, due to my atheist background many things are hard for me to believe, I'm very meticulous, and I do my research. I don't just jump into believing all people say, even having my own personal experiences, today I have a hard time to believe they ever happen, but they did, I don't talk about them or share it with anyone, but I'm telling you, so you re think the way you judge people, and where your faith is at.

Why does my faith bother you so much? You think I've not read the bible? after I had read in my life so many big books, bigger and thicker than the bible, and I came to realize that I read so much of the world but had no knowledge of God, and knew not a simple prayer?

I graduated in 4 careers, was one of the best students in School and was given awards and scholarships to the best schools in the world, I was a man of science and of the world, facts, logic, reason and analysis, quantitative measures were all that was of value to me, all the rest, faith, believing in God and saints, and things like that was nuisance to me, ridiculous and in a way a waste of brain matter. Today I'm persecuted because of my faith, and I'm glad, I persecuted others, I ridiculed others, I let others see how stupid they were for believing in a God created out of their own necessities, convenience or insecurities, and/or failures, or lack of intellect to move forward to expand the limits of their brain, my friends were people who had scientific knowledge; God knows hoe many people's faith i hurt, damaged or destroyed, now I'm atoning for those forgiven sins by wearing the same shoes. I even lost friends in NASA.

God is all for me now, and I do hope the day I go before him I've done his will. Thanks for your comments, but do not be upset and do not question, little less judge people you'd be surprised who the person is in real life, and be embarrassed. God Bless and the peace of the lord be in your heart.
Ultraviolet
"Historically, many things in the Catholic Church are out of place,"

No evidence given. @tearlach

Your say-so isn't good enough. "Out of place?" Which things? What is their "proper" place then?

If you are implying the Church teaches historical falsehoods, you better stop. That's heresy.

"starting with the deluge, and other things mentioned that chronically speaking make no sense at all."

More
"Historically, many things in the Catholic Church are out of place,"

No evidence given. @tearlach

Your say-so isn't good enough. "Out of place?" Which things? What is their "proper" place then?

If you are implying the Church teaches historical falsehoods, you better stop. That's heresy.

"starting with the deluge, and other things mentioned that chronically speaking make no sense at all."

They don't make sense to you. You probably mean "chronologically" not "chronically", so maybe you should check your definitions.

Interestingly, the Deluge has been recorded even in non-Christian stories of the past.

The historical record is certainly imprecise during the distant past, but that's no reason to claim it "makes no sense at all".

"When supposedly God ended sin, yet it continued, it does not make sense,"


God could end sin and then man resumes his sinful ways. God allows man free will. Man, exercising God's gift, and tempted by the Evil One, resumed what God had ended.

"but we are not to question that, nor we are to question the giants, nor we are to question the fire from the sky that fell in Sodom and Gomorrah, nor we are to question if Enoch was truly taken to heaven or Elijah, and many other things like how the red sea was parted."

Welcome to the awesome stuff that happened in the Old Testament.

I don't have to "question" anything. All I need do is exercise reason and science.

Giants? Not a problem for me. Ever seen the photo of Wilt Chamberlin, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Andre Roussimoff ?

c8.alamy.com/…/wilt-chamberlai…

pbs.twimg.com/media/DamSQcjVQAAqqL1.jpg:large

Arnold is OVER six feet tall (over two meters) and one of the most famous body-builders of all time. Arnold is a BIG man even today.

But compared to Wilt and Andre he looks like a child. Men like Wilt and Andre are giants even today.

Remember, people in the ancient world were shorter than we are today. Poor nutrition played a part.

Men like Wilt and Andre would be described as giants.

Sodom and Gommorah could have been a meteor.

www.timesofisrael.com/evidence-of-sod…

Elijah? What of Jesus? What of the Blessed Mother? Who knows?

Perhaps someday we'll understand. It is enough to -know- something is a fact without being able to explain why it occurs.

The universe is full of astronomical events that man knows exist but can not duplicate or fully explain. Black holes and quasars for example.

How the red sea was parted?

www.washingtonpost.com/…/no-really-there…

"So in other words unless we have faith there's no possible way to explain these occurrences"

Funny since just about every example you gave just got explained. :D

"One f them is the original one."

Probably not.

The Shroud Of Turin is the only cloth that is fully consistent with the Gospels -and- historically accurate in materials -and- displays an image that science simply is unable to duplicate exactly by what appears to be the method used (heat).

"I'm not going to dispute your faith, so why are you so upset disputing mine?"

First, I'm not upset.

Second, your personally held beliefs, your faith, are your own business.

However, when you promote them in a public venue then it becomes my business and the business of everyone reading your beliefs.

The image on the veil contradicts the Gospels. That is a fact. The "veil" story does not appear in the Gospels. That is also a fact. Your beliefs in the veil are both unsupported by the Gospels and contrary to.the Gospels. That is a fact.

Jesus had a crown of thorns. That is in the Gospels, therefore for us Catholics, a fact.

A crown of thorns would cause massive injuries and bleeding to the brow and scalp. That is a medical fact. There is no evidence of any injury or blood on the brow of Mr. Potato Head Jesus. That is an observable fact.

Mr. Potato Head Jesus is not wearing a crown of thorns. That is also an observable fact.

The image of Mr. Potato Head Jesus contradicts what is described in the Gospels. That is a fact.

If the Gospels are true (and they are), and the image of Mr. Potato Head Jesus contradicts the Gospels (and it does), then the image of Mr. Potato Head Jesus is false.

That is reason.

Catholics have a duty to correct error, particularly errors regarding the Church and Scripture. I am doing so.

"just like Gideon I asked him for things no human beings would be able to do, and that could not be a coincidence, just like Gideon I asked for things that only God could do, and nobody else, like changing the weather on specific days in seasons that were impossible."

Logically, your examples are false (fallacious) The first is one of anecdotal evidence. No one can verify your claims independently. As such, they are invalid as evidence.

Second, correlation does not prove causation. That is also a fallacy. What that means is if you ask for something and then it happens, that does not prove you asking caused it to happen..

Here is an example.

Suppose a pagan HIndu asks his false god Vishnu to make the sun rise tomorrow. Sure enough, the sun rises. Does that prove Vishnu answered the pagan Hindu's request? Dose that prove Vishnu is even real? No.

He asked something that does not exist for something that would happen anyway.

" when God touched my heart the first thing he asked me was if I was willing to surrender all the human wisdom I acquire throughout my entire life, I said yes."

Again, there is no way to independently verify this -strange- conversation you had with God.

I've met a lot of people who've had direct conversations with God and they're all as crazy as yours. Such people also tend to have bizarre beliefs in weird mystical things that are contrary to Scripture. No offense to your personal beliefs.

"But I am today a Catholic, not the fanatic paranoid kind, due to my atheist background many things are hard for me to believe, I'm very meticulous, and I do my research."

No you don't. :D I used research to show you why the Veil is contrary to the Gospels and you ignored it.

Why? Because you want to believe in something that has no support in the Gospels at all.

The "veil" story didn't even appear in history until the Middle Ages, when many other weird, untrue, and outright heretical beliefs were rampant.

I've also just used research to show how nearly every one of those "impossible" things in the Old Testament are entirely plausible.

That is how research works. Things either have factual support or they do not.

"so you re think the way you judge people, and where your faith is at."

I judge on the basis of fact and reason.

I judge people's beliefs on the basis of their facts, their reasoning, and how consistent they are to them.

"Why does my faith bother you so much?"

Your faith does not bother me.

am, however, troubled your faith has led you into believing in errors that have no support in the Gospels and contrary TO the Gospels.

"You think I've not read the bible?"

I have no idea what you read. Also, reading something does not presuppose correctly interpreting what you HAVE read.

Lutherans claim they have read the bible. They argue ONLY the Bible should guide mankind, aka the doctrine of "Sola Scriptura".

And look at them. :P :P

They keep fragmenting into endlessly increasing factions -all pointing to "the Bible" as proof for their contradictory views.

"I graduated in 4 careers"

One graduates from schools, not careers. ;-)

"was one of the best students in School and was given awards and scholarships to the best schools in the world"

Obviously they didn't teach you the rudiments of logic or formal debate in any of them. Again, you're making a fallacy of presenting anecdotal evidence.

yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal

Bragging about your academic credentials is another fallacy called an Appeal To Authority.

yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority

"but do not be upset and do not question"

I'm not upset and questioning error is the first step to refuting it.

Nowhere does God say we must accept a person's errors simply because a person claims their beliefs are of God or from God or represent God.

"you'd be surprised who the person is in real life, and be embarrassed."

I could say something really mean about how you're already an embarrassment to other Catholics, but I won't. ;-)