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Tesa
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Cardinal Tagle WEEPS in first appearance after Francis' call to the Vatican

Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Principal Patroness of the Philippines. The Eucharistic Celebration is presided by His Eminence Luis Antonio Cardinal Tagle, D.D., …More
Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Principal Patroness of the Philippines.
The Eucharistic Celebration is presided by His Eminence Luis Antonio Cardinal Tagle, D.D., with His Eminence Cardinal Rainer Maria Woelki, Archbishop of Cologne, Germany and His Excellency Archbishop Gabriele Caccia, Apostolic Nuncio to the Philippines. With Commentary from Fr. Kali Pietre Llamado, Vice Rector of the Manila Cathedral.
johnandannette
This one is udner the same influence as Francis.
frjimanderson
Perhaps with earnest prayer "Francis" may resign...
Lalanz
now
Electing a Pope does not work this way.. A current Pope cannot rig the election process to his liking...As long as Benedict is alive, I truly believe, Francis and the changes he made are illegitimate and false. Before Benedict dies, most likely it will be revealed that Francis is the false Pope...
DEFENSA DE LA FE likes this.
Dr Bobus
@Ultraviolet. Very ambitious people don't know when their emotions are genuine and when they are not
Ultraviolet
That would depend on the very ambitious person, yes? I'd be hesitant to make a generalization like that unless, of course, I'd found a collection of studies in psychiatry journals supporting the claim.

Otherwise, statements about what other people think and feel, what they know or don't know... welll... those get mighy difficult to prove, y'know? ;-)
DEFENSA DE LA FE likes this.
Dr Bobus
@Ultraviolet

I have studied Psychology--the course in Theory and Method of Personality was fascinating. I also read works by Freud, Jung, Erikson, Horney, Menninger, et al. On the other hand, I was referring to St Thomas' theology of the virtues and their mutual relations.

But I was referring to St Thomas.

1. For St Thomas ambition is the inordinate love of honor. It is a vice of excess agains…More
@Ultraviolet

I have studied Psychology--the course in Theory and Method of Personality was fascinating. I also read works by Freud, Jung, Erikson, Horney, Menninger, et al. On the other hand, I was referring to St Thomas' theology of the virtues and their mutual relations.

But I was referring to St Thomas.

1. For St Thomas ambition is the inordinate love of honor. It is a vice of excess against the virtue of magnanimity.

2. Magnanimity is a virtue that is a part of fortitude. And fortitude is a virtue of the irascible appetite, the desire for the difficult good. All virtues of the irascible appetite terminate in the concupisible appetite, the desire for the pleasurable good, which concerns the virtue of Temperance.

3. The contrary vices of Temperance are Intemperance (obviously) and Insensitivity. The latter refers to the vice of defect, in which pleasure is suppressed (NB: the use of a common psychological term). This is a disorder if it is affixed to something like ambition, which in itself is not a worthy desire.

4. Thus, ambition is related to a certain disorder of the emotions.

BTW, one of my Angelicum profs spoke about this throughout the entire course.
Ultraviolet
@Dr Bobus So, uh... no. There hasn't been an actual study conducted on this, or if there has you don't know about it. I'm probably correct in surmising you're not a psychiatrist, either.

Meaning, no offense, what you're offering is a layman's opinion -which is fine providing it doesn't present itself as fact.

St. Thomas wasn't a psychiatrist, either, which explains the following failed premis…More
@Dr Bobus So, uh... no. There hasn't been an actual study conducted on this, or if there has you don't know about it. I'm probably correct in surmising you're not a psychiatrist, either.

Meaning, no offense, what you're offering is a layman's opinion -which is fine providing it doesn't present itself as fact.

St. Thomas wasn't a psychiatrist, either, which explains the following failed premise.

"1. For St Thomas ambition is the inordinate love of honor."

...and his argument stumbles right out of the starting gate. Maybe for St. Thomas ambition is the inordinate love of honor. However, not all ambition stems from a love of honor. For example, ambition can just as easily be the inordinate love of money. A person might be entirely happy seeking out finanical success without desiring fame.

Even this might not be an inherently selfish motive. Many Asian immigrants are ferociously ambitious in the sense of being money-focused. Frequently, it's not so much out of personal greed but providing a solid financial base for their families.

Conversely, ambition can be the inordinate fear of failure. This is common among self-made success-stories who come from extremely poor backgrounds. The poverty of their childhood is a constant goad, forcing them to keep earning more. No matter how much they earn, no matter how successful they get, they're always trying to convince themselves they're truly not poor.

So right there, St. Thomas' first premise fails to address two common and fairly well-known sources of ambition.

"4. Thus, ambition is related to a certain disorder of the emotions."

Just for the sake of discussion, let's assume that St. Thomas' conclusion is correct. Mind you, I'm doing so entirely out of Christian charity here since he built his argument on a faulty first premise.

However, a disorder of the emotions is entirely differen tfrom not knowing the genuineness of one's emotions -which was your original claim: " Very ambitious people don't know when their emotions are genuine and when they are not."

A person can easily have disordered emotions and still know exactly when their emotions are genuine or not. The Church teaches, rightly, homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. Yet for homosexuals, those acts provide genuine emotional pleasure.

The same is true for heterosexuals who enjoy extreme, often laughably grotesque, fetishes. Both groups are obviously disordered emotionally, but they definitely know what they like and when their emotions are genuine.
Dr Bobus
Excuse the delay.

1. According to St Thomas, ambition is distinguished from magnanimity.

2. As I noted above, ambition is opposed to magnanimity. Your examples are matters of magnanimity. It is praiseworthy to want to do great things and have the consequential honor (i.e., respect)--wealth produces a certain honor due to position, influence, home, etc.

I noted that ambition is an inordinate …More
Excuse the delay.

1. According to St Thomas, ambition is distinguished from magnanimity.

2. As I noted above, ambition is opposed to magnanimity. Your examples are matters of magnanimity. It is praiseworthy to want to do great things and have the consequential honor (i.e., respect)--wealth produces a certain honor due to position, influence, home, etc.

I noted that ambition is an inordinate desire for the honor produced by magnanimity. Inordinate desire refers to a lack of proportion between the performance of the act and the desire for the recognition of it. Thus, a lack of honest effort (i.e., magnanimity) to produce a great thing but no lack of desire (or effort) to acquire the consequential respect.

3. Both moral theology and psychology are concerned with human nature and behavior. Psychology, however, is concerned mainly (or perhaps completely) with the contents of the mind. I don't how there cannot be emotional consequences for someone who acquires something (not only goods but honor, respect) without the requisite effort. Such actions would be dishonest (nb: lacking honor). Someone who makes a habit of lying to people is of course unjust. And that indicates a certain fear of Truth, which is a kind of cowardice, which in turn can indicate an intemperate attachment to certain things.

4. Re genuine emotion: I consider that there are proper objects for emotions, thus although they are subjective in origin, they are not purely subjective. Is someone who turns to bestiality or homosexuality to satisfy sexual or romantic desires manifesting a genuine emotion? Perhaps yes subjectively--but no objectively. As St Thomas says, All acts (including movement of emotions) are determined by their objects.
Ultraviolet
It might be genuine Dr Bobus. He's overcome by the fact the Papacy is possibly within reach. Heck, I'd cry too.
Dr Bobus
Good actors can cry on cue.
DEFENSA DE LA FE likes this.
DEFENSA DE LA FE
YES HE IS A PUBLIC SODOMITE AND PROMOTES IN ALL PHILIPINES THE COMUNION FOR ADULTERS IN MORTAL SIN A SACRILEGE.