WEBVTT

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Dominique <00:00:15.218>Vien <00:00:15.458>est <00:00:15.718>professeur <00:00:16.298>agrégé <00:00:16.738>de <00:00:16.898>lettres <00:00:17.378>classiques.

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À l<00:00:18.758>'occasion <00:00:19.078>du <00:00:19.258>9ème <00:00:19.758>congrès <00:00:20.158>du <00:00:20.378>courrier <00:00:20.578>de <00:00:20.758>Rome <00:00:20.878>consacré <00:00:21.398>au <00:00:21.618>concil <00:00:21.958>Vatican <00:00:22.358>II,

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il <00:00:23.478>a <00:00:23.678>tenu <00:00:23.878>une <00:00:24.118>conférence <00:00:24.538>sur <00:00:24.798>la <00:00:24.998>déclaration <00:00:25.478>d'Ostra <00:00:25.938>Aetate.

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Il <00:00:29.138>nous <00:00:29.358>a <00:00:29.638>proposé <00:00:29.898>une <00:00:30.038>analyse <00:00:30.398>sémantique <00:00:31.198>du <00:00:31.398>texte <00:00:31.878>conciliaire.

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Le <00:00:44.361>texte <00:00:44.621>d'Astra<00:00:44.861>-et<00:00:45.021>-Athée, <00:00:46.341>c'est <00:00:47.161>une <00:00:47.281>déclaration <00:00:47.741>conciliaire.

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Les <00:00:48.581>conciles <00:00:48.841>contiennent <00:00:49.141>des <00:00:49.361>textes <00:00:49.741>qu<00:00:49.801>'on <00:00:49.941>appelle <00:00:50.041>les <00:00:50.401>décrets, <00:00:50.741>qui <00:00:50.841>sont <00:00:50.941>des <00:00:51.161>déclarations.

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La <00:00:52.081>déclaration <00:00:52.521>est, <00:00:53.161>on <00:00:53.241>pourrait <00:00:53.421>dire, <00:00:53.861>moins importante <00:00:54.321>théologiquement.

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Elle est <00:00:56.361>plus <00:00:56.601>un <00:00:56.901>appel, <00:00:58.761>comment <00:00:58.921>dire, <00:00:59.421>un esprit.

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concilière <00:01:02.438>qu<00:01:02.718>'un <00:01:02.978>travail <00:01:03.638>strictement <00:01:04.798>dogmatique <00:01:05.518>et <00:01:06.438>cette

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déclaration <00:01:07.258>n'est <00:01:07.918>pas <00:01:08.078>nouvelle <00:01:08.438>absolument <00:01:09.038>dans <00:01:09.238>le <00:01:09.358>cadre <00:01:09.518>du <00:01:09.758>concil.

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Son <00:01:11.638>objet <00:01:11.878>principal <00:01:12.398>c<00:01:12.578>'est <00:01:14.018>la <00:01:14.118>relation <00:01:14.498>avec <00:01:14.738>les rejetés.

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non <00:01:15.423>chrétienne <00:01:16.023>mais <00:01:16.743>dans <00:01:17.243>l<00:01:17.323>'histoire <00:01:17.643>du <00:01:17.883>concil <00:01:18.583>ce <00:01:18.923>décret <00:01:19.843>est <00:01:20.403>demeuré <00:01:20.863>comme <00:01:21.423>le

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texte <00:01:22.383>de la <00:01:22.403>relation <00:01:22.723>avec <00:01:22.923>le <00:01:23.203>judaïsme <00:01:23.683>avec <00:01:23.843>les <00:01:23.963>juifs <00:01:24.223>en <00:01:24.383>fait <00:01:24.483>c<00:01:24.583>'est <00:01:24.683>assez

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curieux <00:01:25.303>c<00:01:25.503>'est <00:01:25.623>une <00:01:25.803>partie <00:01:26.123>seulement <00:01:26.603>qui <00:01:26.883>a <00:01:27.523>crevé <00:01:27.883>l<00:01:28.083>'histoire <00:01:28.483>et <00:01:28.743>qui <00:01:28.883>est

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restait <00:01:29.893>pour <00:01:30.113>les <00:01:30.233>40 <00:01:30.433>années <00:01:30.653>qui <00:01:30.873>suivaient <00:01:31.453>et <00:01:31.833>de <00:01:32.013>ce <00:01:32.133>point <00:01:32.313>de <00:01:32.413>vue <00:01:32.533>là <00:01:32.913>il <00:01:33.213>n<00:01:33.293>'est <00:01:33.533>pas <00:01:33.873>absolument <00:01:34.173>nouveau <00:01:34.593>puisque

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les <00:01:35.713>années <00:01:35.913>50 <00:01:36.273>ont <00:01:36.493>vu <00:01:36.853>par <00:01:37.153>exemple <00:01:37.453>avec <00:01:37.813>Julisac, <00:01:38.593>historien <00:01:38.673>français <00:01:38.893>Julisac, <00:01:39.613>qui avait <00:01:39.753>demandé <00:01:40.273>au <00:01:40.733>papy <00:01:41.073>XII <00:01:41.473>que <00:01:41.753>l<00:01:41.853>'on <00:01:42.053>revoit <00:01:42.353>les <00:01:42.533>prières

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du <00:01:43.133>vendredi <00:01:43.613>5, <00:01:43.913>qu<00:01:43.993>'il parlait <00:01:44.133>des <00:01:44.253>juifs <00:01:44.533>perfides, <00:01:45.453>qu'on <00:01:45.593>rétablit <00:01:45.933>sa <00:01:46.093>Juniflexion <00:01:47.093>au <00:01:47.353>moment <00:01:47.673>de

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de <00:01:49.868>la <00:01:50.048>liturgie <00:01:51.108>de <00:01:51.588>la <00:01:51.668>Semaine <00:01:51.868>Sainte, <00:01:52.728>il y <00:01:52.828>avait <00:01:52.928>des <00:01:53.108>travaux <00:01:53.268>d<00:01:53.448>'approches <00:01:54.208>pour <00:01:54.468>avoir <00:01:54.748>un <00:01:55.028>regard <00:01:55.608>différent,

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plus <00:01:57.148>charitable, <00:01:58.048>plus <00:01:58.308>compréhensif <00:01:59.328>vis<00:01:59.648>-à<00:01:59.708>-vis <00:01:59.788>des <00:01:59.908>religions <00:02:00.108>non<00:02:00.208>-chrétiennes <00:02:00.468>et <00:02:00.608>notamment <00:02:00.908>du <00:02:01.048>judaïsme.

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Par <00:02:02.448>contre, <00:02:02.708>pour <00:02:02.748>ce <00:02:02.788>qui <00:02:02.868>est <00:02:02.928>de <00:02:02.968>l<00:02:03.028>'hindouisme, <00:02:03.548>du <00:02:03.588>bouddhisme, <00:02:04.068>du <00:02:04.208>somme, <00:02:04.468>il n<00:02:04.548>'y avait <00:02:04.648>pratiquement <00:02:05.228>aucune <00:02:05.868>étape <00:02:07.668>préalable <00:02:08.208>dans <00:02:08.708>l<00:02:08.748>'histoire <00:02:09.048>de <00:02:09.168>l<00:02:09.228>'Église <00:02:09.468>contemporaine.

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Ce <00:02:20.159>qui <00:02:20.299>m<00:02:20.399>'intéresse, <00:02:21.419>c<00:02:21.499>'est <00:02:21.679>de <00:02:21.799>voir <00:02:22.119>comment, <00:02:22.979>sur des <00:02:23.119>sujets <00:02:23.399>sensibles, <00:02:24.519>difficiles, <00:02:25.539>relativement <00:02:25.899>nouveaux <00:02:26.119>pour <00:02:26.319>l<00:02:26.399>'Église,

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les <00:02:27.759>pères <00:02:28.239>du <00:02:28.439>Concile, <00:02:28.759>les <00:02:28.999>évêques <00:02:29.219>du <00:02:29.399>Concile, <00:02:30.719>arrivent, <00:02:31.119>j<00:02:31.559>'allais <00:02:31.699>dire, <00:02:31.939>à <00:02:32.079>se <00:02:32.279>dépêtrer <00:02:33.599>dans <00:02:35.799>une <00:02:35.999>matière <00:02:36.339>difficile.

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Est<00:02:38.339>-ce <00:02:38.479>que <00:02:38.559>les <00:02:38.719>religions, <00:02:39.299>autrefois, <00:02:42.259>dans l<00:02:42.379>'histoire <00:02:42.639>de <00:02:42.819>l<00:02:42.859>'Église, <00:02:44.079>les <00:02:44.219>religions <00:02:44.939>non <00:02:45.259>chrétiennes, <00:02:45.799>le <00:02:45.959>bouddhisme, <00:02:46.479>l<00:02:46.539>'islamisme,

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l<00:02:48.243>'animisme, <00:02:49.063>le <00:02:50.263>taïoïsme, <00:02:51.223>etc. <00:02:51.923>Ce <00:02:51.943>sont <00:02:52.083>des <00:02:52.183>religions <00:02:52.423>de <00:02:52.543>païens. <00:02:53.103>On <00:02:53.163>parle <00:02:53.323>de <00:02:53.443>païens, <00:02:54.283>on <00:02:54.323>parle <00:02:54.663>voire

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dans <00:02:55.873>la <00:02:55.993>bouche <00:02:56.293>des <00:02:56.413>pères <00:02:56.513>de <00:02:56.613>l<00:02:56.673>'église, <00:02:57.073>on <00:02:57.093>parle <00:02:57.353>de <00:02:57.633>religion <00:02:58.333>démoniaque, <00:02:59.213>on parle <00:02:59.673>de

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doctrine <00:03:00.953>fausse, <00:03:01.713>on <00:03:01.773>n<00:03:01.853>'a pas <00:03:01.973>de <00:03:02.113>mot <00:03:02.273>très <00:03:02.453>tendre <00:03:03.013>et <00:03:03.453>dans <00:03:04.033>l<00:03:04.133>'esprit <00:03:04.313>du <00:03:04.453>concil <00:03:04.973>on

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essaie <00:03:06.093>de <00:03:06.493>présenter <00:03:06.733>des <00:03:06.853>choses <00:03:06.953>de <00:03:07.033>manière <00:03:07.153>positive <00:03:07.653>mais <00:03:08.413>pris <00:03:09.193>entre <00:03:09.393>la

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tradition <00:03:09.933>de <00:03:10.093>l<00:03:10.173>'église <00:03:10.653>et <00:03:10.793>son <00:03:11.353>discours <00:03:11.773>et <00:03:12.473>le <00:03:12.633>désir <00:03:13.173>d<00:03:13.253>'avoir <00:03:13.393>un <00:03:13.573>nouveau

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regard, <00:03:15.153>les <00:03:15.573>pères <00:03:15.733>du <00:03:15.833>concil <00:03:17.413>sont <00:03:17.553>très <00:03:17.713>ennuyés

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par <00:03:18.418>le <00:03:18.738>choix <00:03:18.978>des <00:03:19.158>mots, <00:03:19.458>le <00:03:19.498>choix <00:03:19.638>du <00:03:19.738>vocabulaire, <00:03:20.798>qu<00:03:20.838>'est<00:03:20.858>-ce <00:03:20.958>qu<00:03:21.018>'on <00:03:21.058>va <00:03:21.158>dire <00:03:21.298>de <00:03:21.398>positif, <00:03:21.958>comment

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va<00:03:22.278>-t<00:03:22.378>-on <00:03:22.398>le <00:03:22.478>dire, <00:03:22.778>quel registre, <00:03:24.338>quel <00:03:24.418>lexique <00:03:24.898>va<00:03:25.018>-t<00:03:25.078>-on <00:03:25.118>employer, <00:03:25.718>quel <00:03:25.838>ton <00:03:26.158>va<00:03:26.318>-t<00:03:26.438>-on <00:03:26.478>employer.

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Et <00:03:27.318>ce <00:03:27.538>que <00:03:27.638>j<00:03:27.718>'essaie <00:03:27.898>de <00:03:28.018>faire, <00:03:28.558>c<00:03:28.898>'est <00:03:29.758>de <00:03:30.518>me <00:03:30.618>retrouver <00:03:31.058>dans <00:03:31.938>vraiment <00:03:33.038>la <00:03:33.398>littéralité <00:03:34.058>du

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texte, <00:03:34.578>dans <00:03:34.658>le <00:03:34.758>texte <00:03:35.198>lui<00:03:35.298>-même, <00:03:35.558>plus <00:03:35.718>que <00:03:35.898>dans <00:03:35.998>la <00:03:36.118>théologie.

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Pour <00:03:46.839>ma <00:03:46.959>part, <00:03:47.919>critique <00:03:49.239>ou <00:03:49.839>hyper <00:03:50.059>critique, <00:03:50.659>être <00:03:50.739>critique <00:03:51.139>c<00:03:51.299>'est <00:03:51.399>rarement <00:03:51.719>être <00:03:51.879>tendre, <00:03:52.959>j<00:03:53.119>'idécelle

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malheureusement <00:03:55.119>beaucoup <00:03:55.379>d<00:03:55.539>'incohérence.

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beaucoup <00:03:56.954>d<00:03:57.094>'incohérences. <00:03:57.714>Ils ont <00:03:57.814>pour <00:03:58.034>résumer, <00:03:58.774>c<00:03:59.074>'est <00:03:59.094>un <00:03:59.194>texte <00:03:59.454>très <00:03:59.554>court <00:03:59.794>de <00:03:59.974>page, <00:04:00.994>dans <00:04:01.134>lequel <00:04:01.394>on <00:04:01.594>dit <00:04:01.814>que <00:04:02.014>les <00:04:02.174>religions <00:04:02.554>non <00:04:02.774>chrétiennes

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ont <00:04:04.934>des <00:04:05.074>voix <00:04:05.234>très <00:04:05.634>différentes <00:04:06.054>de <00:04:06.254>l<00:04:06.334>'église, <00:04:07.034>très <00:04:07.334>différentes <00:04:07.754>de <00:04:07.934>celles <00:04:08.154>que <00:04:08.234>l<00:04:08.314>'église <00:04:08.474>a <00:04:08.574>choisie,

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mais <00:04:09.634>qu<00:04:09.734>'elles <00:04:09.774>sont <00:04:09.954>très <00:04:10.174>positives. <00:04:10.994>Auquel <00:04:11.174>cas <00:04:11.334>on <00:04:11.394>se <00:04:11.514>demande <00:04:11.734>pourquoi <00:04:11.974>l<00:04:12.134>'église <00:04:12.514>a <00:04:12.714>choisi <00:04:13.074>une <00:04:13.234>voix

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différente <00:04:14.454>si <00:04:14.594>elle <00:04:14.674>n<00:04:14.774>'est <00:04:14.794>pas <00:04:14.894>positive <00:04:15.294>elle <00:04:15.454>aussi. <00:04:16.134>Et <00:04:16.174>si <00:04:16.274>ce <00:04:16.414>sont <00:04:16.554>deux <00:04:16.714>voix <00:04:16.874>positives <00:04:17.354>différentes, <00:04:17.974>comment <00:04:18.054>peuvent<00:04:18.254>-elles <00:04:18.374>être <00:04:18.514>positives <00:04:18.954>en <00:04:19.174>même <00:04:19.334>temps

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avec <00:04:21.074>un <00:04:21.474>agir <00:04:21.814>différent <00:04:22.314>?

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Donc, <00:04:23.975>le <00:04:24.375>problème <00:04:24.675>linguistique, <00:04:25.315>il <00:04:25.415>est <00:04:25.555>là.

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Donc, <00:04:26.715>c<00:04:26.775>'est <00:04:26.815>un <00:04:26.955>texte <00:04:27.215>qui <00:04:27.255>essaie <00:04:27.455>de <00:04:27.555>rassembler

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un <00:04:29.195>plus <00:04:31.015>petit <00:04:31.335>commun <00:04:31.715>multiple, <00:04:32.615>en <00:04:32.675>quelque <00:04:32.775>sorte.

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Ce <00:04:34.355>qui <00:04:34.615>peut <00:04:34.875>y <00:04:34.995>avoir <00:04:35.255>de <00:04:35.775>communs <00:04:36.935>aux <00:04:37.155>grandes <00:04:37.895>religions

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et <00:04:40.435>à <00:04:40.635>l<00:04:40.695>'église <00:04:40.895>catholique <00:04:41.295>romaine.

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croire <00:04:42.998>en <00:04:43.098>un <00:04:43.278>seul <00:04:43.438>dieu,

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avoir <00:04:44.838>une <00:04:45.238>attention <00:04:45.498>aux <00:04:45.718>problèmes <00:04:45.858>moraux,

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se <00:04:47.078>soucier <00:04:47.718>du <00:04:47.938>progrès <00:04:48.438>humain, <00:04:49.358>espérer <00:04:49.798>un <00:04:49.978>autre <00:04:50.218>monde,

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et

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c<00:04:53.418>'est <00:04:53.518>très <00:04:53.678>peu <00:04:53.818>de <00:04:53.918>choses <00:04:54.078>finalement.

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C'est <00:04:55.718>très <00:04:56.118>peu <00:04:56.278>de <00:04:56.418>choses <00:04:56.658>qui <00:04:56.878>va

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induire <00:04:58.438>une <00:04:58.638>fraternité, <00:04:59.798>une <00:04:59.818>confiance, <00:05:01.458>un <00:05:01.698>dialogue,

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c<00:05:03.098>'est <00:05:03.658>réellement <00:05:04.398>une <00:05:04.698>base <00:05:05.238>minimale <00:05:06.158>sur <00:05:06.318>lequel <00:05:06.598>on <00:05:06.798>cherche <00:05:06.998>à <00:05:07.138>conserver <00:05:07.418>le <00:05:07.578>dialogue.

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Pour <00:05:10.950>le <00:05:11.070>judaïsme <00:05:11.630>et <00:05:11.710>le <00:05:11.810>catholicisme, <00:05:12.750>il <00:05:13.010>y <00:05:13.150>a <00:05:13.170>en <00:05:13.230>commun <00:05:13.410>l<00:05:13.530>'Ancien <00:05:13.690>Testament, <00:05:14.270>indubitablement.

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Pour <00:05:15.370>l<00:05:15.470>'islam, <00:05:15.910>c<00:05:15.930>'est <00:05:15.950>déjà <00:05:16.070>plus <00:05:16.210>loin, <00:05:16.530>il <00:05:16.650>reconnaît <00:05:17.070>l<00:05:17.150>'Ancien <00:05:17.250>Testament, <00:05:17.730>mais <00:05:17.790>la <00:05:17.910>révélation

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à <00:05:19.230>Mahomet <00:05:19.570>est <00:05:20.010>passée <00:05:20.310>par <00:05:20.450>derrière <00:05:20.750>et <00:05:21.010>occulte <00:05:21.450>totalement <00:05:21.770>l<00:05:21.950>'Ancien <00:05:22.130>Testament <00:05:22.510>ou <00:05:22.690>peu <00:05:22.810>sans

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faux.

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Pour <00:05:24.310>l<00:05:24.450>'indoïsme, <00:05:24.990>qu<00:05:25.050>'est<00:05:25.110>-ce <00:05:25.190>qu<00:05:25.230>'il <00:05:25.290>y <00:05:25.390>a <00:05:25.430>de <00:05:25.490>commun <00:05:25.690>? <00:05:25.810>Pour <00:05:25.890>le <00:05:26.010>bouddhisme <00:05:26.430>qui <00:05:26.590>est <00:05:26.730>à <00:05:26.830>peine

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religion, <00:05:27.670>qu<00:05:27.730>'est<00:05:27.770>-ce <00:05:27.890>qu<00:05:27.910>'on <00:05:27.950>peut <00:05:28.070>trouver <00:05:28.390>comme <00:05:28.790>point <00:05:29.050>de <00:05:29.170>rencontre <00:05:29.690>? <00:05:29.870>Alors, <00:05:30.250>disais<00:05:30.910>-je, <00:05:31.090>le

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délaminateur <00:05:31.670>commun, <00:05:32.050>ça <00:05:32.170>va <00:05:32.330>être...

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Dieu, <00:05:35.080>l<00:05:35.140>'après<00:05:35.280>-mort, <00:05:36.080>l<00:05:36.099>'avis <00:05:36.320>moral, <00:05:37.120>et puis <00:05:37.320>il <00:05:37.520>faut <00:05:37.920>de <00:05:38.060>mieux <00:05:38.340>la <00:05:38.500>justice <00:05:38.760>sociale, <00:05:39.460>la <00:05:39.560>paix, <00:05:40.240>le <00:05:40.640>dialogue <00:05:40.940>fraternel.

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Donc <00:05:42.340>on <00:05:42.640>a <00:05:42.780>une <00:05:42.920>impression <00:05:43.200>de <00:05:43.420>malaise <00:05:44.000>parce <00:05:44.260>que <00:05:44.520>le <00:05:45.000>texte <00:05:45.840>rempli <00:05:46.760>d<00:05:46.860>'une <00:05:47.020>bonne <00:05:47.300>volonté <00:05:47.920>est <00:05:48.120>perdu <00:05:48.580>des <00:05:49.740>soins <00:05:50.180>à <00:05:50.260>chaque <00:05:50.460>ligne <00:05:50.880>par <00:05:51.360>la <00:05:52.500>matière <00:05:52.940>très <00:05:53.219>pauvre.

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Voilà <00:05:53.952>un <00:05:54.132>peu <00:05:54.252>de <00:05:54.332>l<00:05:54.512>'idée <00:05:54.912>qui <00:05:55.212>a <00:05:55.732>présidé <00:05:56.292>la <00:05:56.972>xème <00:05:57.952>lecture <00:05:58.212>que <00:05:58.372>je <00:05:58.452>fais <00:05:58.592>de <00:05:58.712>ce <00:05:58.852>texte <00:05:59.192>et <00:05:59.272>c<00:05:59.292>'est <00:05:59.332>ce <00:05:59.432>que <00:05:59.512>j<00:05:59.612>'ai <00:05:59.672>essayé <00:05:59.892>de <00:05:59.992>montrer <00:06:00.432>à <00:06:02.312>travers <00:06:02.592>cette <00:06:02.952>conférence, <00:06:04.112>très <00:06:04.252>modeste, <00:06:04.832>c'est <00:06:04.912>des <00:06:04.992>coups <00:06:05.172>de <00:06:05.192>sonde, <00:06:06.032>des <00:06:06.152>contradictions, <00:06:06.872>des <00:06:06.892>confusions, <00:06:07.712>des <00:06:07.772>glissements <00:06:08.152>de <00:06:08.372>sens, <00:06:08.952>des <00:06:09.032>approximations, <00:06:10.372>mais <00:06:10.752>nécessaires, <00:06:12.072>parce <00:06:12.192>que <00:06:12.392>sinon, <00:06:13.392>que <00:06:13.552>resterait<00:06:13.952>-il <00:06:14.052>de <00:06:14.192>commun <00:06:14.452>dans <00:06:14.712>ce <00:06:14.852>dialogue <00:06:15.052>?

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Il <00:06:25.549>y <00:06:25.629>a <00:06:25.689>quatre <00:06:25.829>thèmes, <00:06:26.529>il <00:06:26.689>y <00:06:27.009>a cinq <00:06:27.209>en <00:06:27.389>fait. <00:06:27.789>Les <00:06:27.869>religions <00:06:28.229>donc <00:06:28.529>chrétiennes <00:06:28.909>en <00:06:28.929>général,

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l<00:06:30.209>'indouisme, <00:06:30.709>le <00:06:30.769>bouddhisme, <00:06:31.469>l<00:06:31.589>'islam <00:06:31.849>et <00:06:31.929>le <00:06:32.029>judaïsme. <00:06:32.709>Bon, <00:06:33.109>on <00:06:33.189>sait <00:06:33.469>historiquement <00:06:34.189>que <00:06:34.449>le

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texte <00:06:34.829>doit <00:06:34.909>porter <00:06:35.109>essentiellement <00:06:35.509>sur <00:06:35.609>le <00:06:35.729>judaïsme <00:06:36.329>pour <00:06:36.589>des <00:06:36.729>raisons <00:06:36.929>historiques <00:06:37.369>évidentes <00:06:38.009>dans <00:06:38.109>les

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années <00:06:38.369>60.

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les <00:06:40.130>perconsidiaires, <00:06:41.270>désirs, <00:06:42.370>un <00:06:42.450>renouveau <00:06:43.370>profond <00:06:44.390>de <00:06:44.970>la <00:06:45.150>vision <00:06:45.410>du <00:06:45.610>judaïsme, <00:06:46.190>du <00:06:46.210>rapport <00:06:46.410>avec <00:06:46.570>le <00:06:46.650>judaïsme.

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Mais <00:06:47.530>on <00:06:47.690>ne <00:06:47.830>pouvait <00:06:47.950>pas <00:06:48.210>exclure <00:06:48.750>l<00:06:48.890>'islam <00:06:49.270>qui <00:06:49.590>représente <00:06:49.950>des <00:06:50.070>centaines <00:06:50.270>de <00:06:50.350>millions <00:06:50.510>de <00:06:50.630>personnes,

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s<00:06:51.550>'il <00:06:51.570>était <00:06:51.730>très <00:06:51.970>mal <00:06:52.110>perçu, <00:06:53.130>donc <00:06:53.290>on <00:06:54.050>a <00:06:54.250>ajouté <00:06:54.690>zélo.

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Mais <00:06:55.230>on <00:06:55.310>ne <00:06:55.390>pouvait <00:06:55.530>pas <00:06:55.730>non <00:06:55.830>plus <00:06:56.070>rejeter <00:06:56.630>tout <00:06:56.830>l<00:06:56.930>'extrême<00:06:57.250>-orient, <00:06:58.010>un <00:06:58.090>douisme, <00:06:58.490>bouddhisme,

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ce <00:06:59.590>qui <00:06:59.710>était, <00:07:00.270>comment <00:07:00.630>dirais<00:07:00.870>-je, <00:07:01.170>paradoxal.

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mais <00:07:02.346>on <00:07:02.446>fait <00:07:02.566>la <00:07:02.646>discrimination. <00:07:03.826>Donc <00:07:03.926>ces <00:07:04.626>différentes <00:07:04.966>étapes <00:07:05.446>se <00:07:05.566>sentent <00:07:06.126>dans <00:07:06.286>la <00:07:06.386>rédaction, <00:07:06.906>dans <00:07:07.006>la

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disposition <00:07:07.526>des <00:07:07.786>paragrapes <00:07:09.046>et <00:07:09.146>en <00:07:09.266>réalité <00:07:09.606>c<00:07:10.166>'est <00:07:10.266>le <00:07:10.386>judaïsme <00:07:10.966>qui <00:07:11.106>occupe.

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toute <00:07:11.951>la <00:07:12.171>principale <00:07:12.671>partie <00:07:12.951>finale <00:07:13.391>qui <00:07:13.631>est <00:07:13.711>la <00:07:13.811>plus <00:07:13.971>fouillée <00:07:14.331>qui <00:07:14.451>est <00:07:14.491>la <00:07:14.571>plus <00:07:14.671>profonde <00:07:15.071>et <00:07:15.411>c<00:07:15.511>'est <00:07:15.571>celle

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c<00:07:16.151>'est <00:07:16.211>la <00:07:16.311>partie <00:07:16.551>sur <00:07:16.711>le <00:07:16.811>judaïsme <00:07:17.271>qui <00:07:17.531>va <00:07:18.151>induire <00:07:18.771>un <00:07:18.871>dialogue <00:07:19.251>infiniment <00:07:19.971>plus <00:07:20.111>important <00:07:20.591>bon <00:07:20.871>concrètement

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les <00:07:22.671>papes <00:07:22.991>sont <00:07:23.051>allés <00:07:23.211>dans <00:07:23.291>des <00:07:23.411>synagogues <00:07:24.171>et <00:07:24.271>il y <00:07:24.371>a eu des <00:07:24.431>réponses <00:07:24.731>en <00:07:24.831>vie <00:07:24.991>des <00:07:25.171>juifs <00:07:25.631>ensuite <00:07:25.891>il <00:07:26.071>y <00:07:26.151>a <00:07:26.171>eu <00:07:26.231>beaucoup <00:07:26.471>de <00:07:26.671>documents

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qui <00:07:28.651>ont <00:07:28.751>exprimé <00:07:29.231>un <00:07:29.351>nouveau <00:07:29.511>rapport <00:07:29.811>de <00:07:29.971>l<00:07:30.071>'église <00:07:30.231>avec <00:07:30.351>le <00:07:30.491>judaïsme <00:07:31.251>alors <00:07:31.471>que <00:07:31.631>sur <00:07:31.791>l<00:07:31.911>'adouer <00:07:32.131>sur <00:07:32.251>le <00:07:32.331>bouddhisme <00:07:32.671>il <00:07:32.791>n'y <00:07:32.831>a <00:07:32.851>plus <00:07:32.951>rien <00:07:33.171>nul <00:07:33.331>depuis <00:07:33.491>le <00:07:33.591>concil <00:07:33.911>ça <00:07:34.091>n<00:07:34.191>'a <00:07:34.211>pas <00:07:34.351>d<00:07:34.431>'intérêt

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Et <00:07:35.146>sur <00:07:35.286>l<00:07:35.386>'islam, <00:07:35.706>un <00:07:35.786>minimum, <00:07:36.346>une <00:07:36.566>visite <00:07:37.046>de <00:07:37.406>mosquée <00:07:37.906>de <00:07:38.406>Benoît <00:07:38.666>XVI <00:07:38.826>en <00:07:38.986>Turquie, <00:07:39.786>qui <00:07:40.126>est <00:07:40.266>quasiment <00:07:40.686>un <00:07:40.826>acte <00:07:40.986>diplomatique.

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Donc <00:07:42.086>en <00:07:42.366>réalité, <00:07:43.526>le <00:07:43.726>noyau <00:07:44.106>c<00:07:44.246>'était <00:07:44.386>la <00:07:44.666>relation <00:07:44.886>avec <00:07:45.026>le <00:07:45.106>judaïsme.

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Mais la <00:07:46.426>difficulté, <00:07:47.146>c<00:07:47.186>'est <00:07:47.246>que <00:07:47.326>nous <00:07:47.406>sommes <00:07:47.626>en <00:07:47.726>65, <00:07:48.926>deux <00:07:49.186>ans <00:07:49.346>plus <00:07:49.486>tard, <00:07:50.406>n<00:07:50.486>'est<00:07:50.566>-ce <00:07:50.626>pas <00:07:50.686>les <00:07:50.786>troupes <00:07:51.006>israéliennes,

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toujours <00:07:52.386>en <00:07:52.646>guerre <00:07:52.826>officiellement <00:07:53.526>avec <00:07:53.846>les <00:07:54.066>états <00:07:54.306>arabes, <00:07:55.226>vont <00:07:55.366>recontirir <00:07:55.866>les <00:07:55.966>Jeux <00:07:56.066>d<00:07:56.166>'Islam,

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c<00:07:56.686>'est<00:07:56.706>-à<00:07:56.726>-dire les <00:07:56.886>six <00:07:57.066>jours, <00:07:58.046>et <00:07:58.086>tout <00:07:59.906>cela <00:08:00.126>est <00:08:00.186>dans <00:08:00.306>l<00:08:00.426>'air, <00:08:01.006>les <00:08:01.306>évêques.

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chrétien <00:08:02.645>du <00:08:02.945>Moyen<00:08:03.285>-Orient <00:08:03.705>voit <00:08:04.345>d<00:08:04.485>'un <00:08:04.545>très <00:08:05.005>très <00:08:05.325>mauvais <00:08:05.585>œil <00:08:06.345>un <00:08:06.625>rapprochement <00:08:07.365>élogeux <00:08:08.365>avec <00:08:08.625>le <00:08:08.745>judaïsme <00:08:09.345>alors <00:08:09.505>que <00:08:09.685>c<00:08:10.205>'est <00:08:10.325>c<00:08:10.345>'est <00:08:10.585>un <00:08:10.785>ennemi

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c<00:08:11.465>'est <00:08:11.685>un <00:08:11.865>ennemi <00:08:12.245>géopolitique <00:08:13.285>c<00:08:13.585>'est <00:08:13.665>un <00:08:13.805>ennemi <00:08:14.205>au <00:08:14.545>Moyen<00:08:14.825>-Orient

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que <00:08:16.465>ce <00:08:16.945>soit

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l<00:08:17.425>'Irak, <00:08:19.545>que ce <00:08:19.665>soit <00:08:19.825>l<00:08:19.945>'Egypte, <00:08:20.465>que <00:08:20.485>ce <00:08:20.565>soit <00:08:20.625>la <00:08:20.765>Syrie, <00:08:21.085>ils <00:08:21.125>sont <00:08:21.325>en <00:08:21.485>guerre <00:08:21.645>contre <00:08:21.885>Israël <00:08:22.385>donc <00:08:22.765>il <00:08:22.905>y <00:08:22.925>a <00:08:22.965>eu <00:08:23.005>des <00:08:23.085>luttes <00:08:23.245>d<00:08:23.325>'influence

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Et <00:08:24.820>c<00:08:24.860>'est <00:08:24.920>très <00:08:25.040>amusant <00:08:25.420>parce <00:08:25.700>qu<00:08:25.920>'à <00:08:26.200>la <00:08:26.280>fin <00:08:26.520>du <00:08:26.680>texte <00:08:27.420>de <00:08:27.940>Stray <00:08:28.200>Tate, <00:08:28.760>les <00:08:29.200>pères <00:08:29.400>du <00:08:29.520>consil <00:08:29.940>disent <00:08:30.300>que <00:08:30.640>leur <00:08:30.960>grand <00:08:31.400>esprit <00:08:34.280>de <00:08:35.100>compassion <00:08:35.400>et <00:08:35.660>d<00:08:35.760>'amitié <00:08:35.900>pour <00:08:36.080>le <00:08:36.160>peuple <00:08:36.260>juif <00:08:36.680>ne <00:08:37.040>doit <00:08:37.300>absolument <00:08:37.780>rien <00:08:38.260>à <00:08:38.400>des <00:08:38.520>raisons <00:08:38.780>politiques.

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Mais le <00:08:40.120>dire, <00:08:40.440>c<00:08:40.520>'est <00:08:40.560>déjà <00:08:40.820>avoué <00:08:41.220>précisément <00:08:41.860>qu<00:08:42.040>'il <00:08:42.080>y <00:08:42.180>a des <00:08:42.320>raisons <00:08:42.580>politiques. <00:08:43.320>Ils <00:08:43.420>s<00:08:43.620>'en <00:08:43.680>défendent <00:08:44.160>parce <00:08:44.340>que <00:08:44.480>précisément <00:08:45.160>c<00:08:45.300>'est <00:08:45.360>la <00:08:45.500>réalité. <00:08:46.340>Il <00:08:46.460>y <00:08:46.580>a <00:08:46.600>des <00:08:46.720>raisons <00:08:46.980>politiques <00:08:47.440>dans <00:08:47.920>le <00:08:48.040>texte.

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Et <00:08:48.620>le <00:08:48.760>texte <00:08:49.220>précisément <00:08:49.740>sur <00:08:49.880>le <00:08:49.980>judaïsme <00:08:50.400>aboutit <00:08:50.780>à <00:08:50.880>des <00:08:50.980>compromis.

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à <00:08:51.750>des <00:08:51.850>compromis <00:08:52.270>stupéfiants <00:08:53.010>dans <00:08:53.390>lesquels <00:08:53.810>il <00:08:53.950>y <00:08:54.070>a <00:08:54.230>des <00:08:54.630>éléments <00:08:54.950>de <00:08:55.150>trine <00:08:55.610>de <00:08:55.770>l<00:08:55.850>'église <00:08:56.190>très <00:08:56.450>sévère <00:08:56.970>pour <00:08:57.090>le <00:08:57.170>judaïs,

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très <00:08:57.910>sévère <00:08:58.390>pour <00:08:58.550>ceux <00:08:58.710>qui <00:08:58.910>ont <00:08:59.110>mis <00:08:59.490>à <00:08:59.570>mort <00:08:59.690>le <00:08:59.790>Seigneur <00:09:00.110>Jésus<00:09:00.270>-Christ <00:09:00.530>et <00:09:01.070>en <00:09:01.510>même <00:09:01.630>temps <00:09:01.810>un <00:09:01.950>irénisme,

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une <00:09:03.350>sympathie d'église.

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débordante <00:09:04.715>pour <00:09:04.935>le <00:09:05.515>peuple <00:09:05.895>juif <00:09:06.355>qui <00:09:07.055>ne <00:09:07.435>se <00:09:07.535>colle <00:09:07.715>pas <00:09:07.895>très <00:09:08.075>bien <00:09:08.355>et <00:09:08.755>l<00:09:08.835>'on <00:09:08.895>sait <00:09:09.215>par

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l<00:09:09.615>'histoire <00:09:10.015>de <00:09:10.375>ce <00:09:11.315>texte, <00:09:11.975>on <00:09:12.095>sait <00:09:12.435>par <00:09:13.095>les <00:09:14.915>coulisses <00:09:15.435>du <00:09:15.595>texte, <00:09:16.075>on <00:09:16.095>dirait <00:09:16.235>les <00:09:16.355>coulisses

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n<00:09:16.855>'est <00:09:16.935>ce <00:09:16.995>pas, <00:09:17.555>que <00:09:17.675>c<00:09:18.095>'est <00:09:18.195>le <00:09:18.315>fruit <00:09:18.575>de <00:09:18.735>discussion <00:09:19.435>de <00:09:19.855>menaces, <00:09:20.655>de <00:09:20.715>lobbying <00:09:21.215>entre

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du <00:09:23.825>monde <00:09:23.925>oriental, <00:09:24.745>les <00:09:24.785>évêques <00:09:25.005>d<00:09:25.125>'Occident. <00:09:26.145>Donc ça <00:09:27.465>n<00:09:27.565>'a <00:09:27.605>rien <00:09:27.885>de <00:09:28.065>la <00:09:28.205>grande <00:09:28.545>inspiration,

00:09:29.485 --> 00:09:35.145
n<00:09:29.585>'est<00:09:29.705>-ce <00:09:29.785>pas, <00:09:30.045>du <00:09:30.225>cet <00:09:30.385>esprit <00:09:30.885>inondant <00:09:32.105>les <00:09:32.245>évêques <00:09:32.865>qui <00:09:33.485>dans <00:09:33.625>un <00:09:33.785>cri <00:09:33.925>spontané <00:09:34.665>expriment

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la <00:09:35.285>foi <00:09:35.365>de <00:09:35.445>l<00:09:35.525>'église.

00:09:45.869 --> 00:09:59.209
Je <00:09:46.209>mets <00:09:46.349>une <00:09:46.449>très <00:09:46.629>mauvaise <00:09:46.949>note <00:09:47.149>et <00:09:48.589>je <00:09:48.729>dirais <00:09:49.109>cette <00:09:49.369>mauvaise <00:09:49.749>note <00:09:50.009>indépendamment <00:09:51.369>même <00:09:51.749>de <00:09:52.409>l<00:09:52.509>'orthodoxie, <00:09:53.549>c'est<00:09:53.869>-à<00:09:54.009>-dire <00:09:54.289>un <00:09:55.489>texte <00:09:56.329>issu <00:09:57.289>d<00:09:57.469>'un <00:09:57.549>concil <00:09:58.289>ecuménique.

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Tous <00:10:00.079>les <00:10:00.199>évêques <00:10:00.499>du <00:10:00.619>monde <00:10:00.839>entier, <00:10:01.679>sous <00:10:02.399>l<00:10:02.499>'inspiration <00:10:02.919>du <00:10:03.079>Saint<00:10:03.259>-Esprit, <00:10:03.839>après <00:10:04.019>deux <00:10:04.279>mille <00:10:04.539>ans <00:10:04.599>de

00:10:04.679 --> 00:10:10.019
grandes <00:10:04.899>traditions <00:10:05.339>théologiques, <00:10:06.479>un <00:10:06.659>texte <00:10:07.159>conciliaire, <00:10:08.079>magistérielle, <00:10:09.279>se <00:10:09.399>devraient

00:10:10.019 --> 00:10:13.759
d<00:10:10.099>'avoir <00:10:10.319>une <00:10:10.639>clarté, <00:10:11.839>une <00:10:11.899>limpidité, <00:10:12.779>une <00:10:12.859>précision.

00:10:14.009 --> 00:10:17.449
qui <00:10:14.249>emporte <00:10:14.689>non <00:10:14.909>seulement <00:10:15.149>l<00:10:15.309>'adhésion <00:10:15.609>mais <00:10:15.709>même <00:10:15.849>l<00:10:15.929>'enthousiasme, <00:10:16.629>on <00:10:16.649>devrait <00:10:16.849>lire <00:10:17.249>ce

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texte <00:10:18.189>en <00:10:18.269>se <00:10:18.449>disant

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mais <00:10:19.369>bon <00:10:19.549>sang <00:10:19.769>quelle <00:10:19.969>intelligence <00:10:20.629>chez <00:10:20.969>ces <00:10:21.149>évêques, <00:10:22.449>quelle <00:10:22.549>c<00:10:22.869>'est <00:10:22.929>la <00:10:23.029>voie <00:10:23.309>de <00:10:23.349>l<00:10:23.449>'église, <00:10:23.969>c<00:10:24.029>'est...

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On <00:10:24.694>n<00:10:24.794>'est <00:10:24.834>persuadés <00:10:25.294>rien <00:10:25.454>qu<00:10:25.554>'à <00:10:25.594>la <00:10:25.694>lecture.

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Or, <00:10:26.654>c<00:10:26.734>'est <00:10:26.794>un <00:10:26.874>peu <00:10:26.994>le <00:10:27.074>contraire <00:10:27.374>qui <00:10:27.474>se <00:10:27.614>produit.

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On <00:10:29.054>lit <00:10:29.334>le <00:10:29.494>texte <00:10:30.014>attentivement.

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Et <00:10:31.654>on <00:10:32.334>ne <00:10:32.454>sait <00:10:32.554>plus <00:10:32.754>exactement <00:10:33.054>où <00:10:33.454>on <00:10:33.614>en <00:10:33.754>est.

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On <00:10:34.914>nous <00:10:35.094>dit <00:10:35.414>de <00:10:36.234>l<00:10:36.354>'indoïsme <00:10:36.854>qu<00:10:36.954>'ils <00:10:37.014>cherchent <00:10:37.394>Dieu,

00:10:38.474 --> 00:10:41.794
qu<00:10:38.494>'ils <00:10:39.134>ont <00:10:39.514>le <00:10:39.734>désir <00:10:40.474>d<00:10:40.674>'une <00:10:40.754>réflexion <00:10:41.214>métaphysique.

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Et après, <00:10:42.174>on <00:10:42.254>nous <00:10:42.334>demande <00:10:42.674>de <00:10:43.254>communiquer <00:10:44.054>avec <00:10:44.734>eux.

00:10:45.469 --> 00:10:51.789
pour <00:10:45.829>la <00:10:45.909>promotion <00:10:46.369>des <00:10:46.769>biens <00:10:47.289>socio<00:10:47.489>-culturels, <00:10:48.429>de <00:10:48.469>la <00:10:48.549>justice <00:10:48.729>sociale, <00:10:49.489>mais quel <00:10:49.989>rapport, <00:10:50.689>quel <00:10:50.769>lien...

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On <00:10:51.869>ne <00:10:51.989>fait <00:10:52.089>pas, <00:10:53.129>on <00:10:53.829>ne <00:10:54.129>parvient <00:10:54.529>pas <00:10:54.809>à <00:10:55.269>avoir <00:10:55.689>la <00:10:55.809>logique <00:10:56.249>interne <00:10:56.649>du <00:10:56.729>document.

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Et <00:10:57.689>si <00:10:58.469>c<00:10:58.569>'était <00:10:58.689>un <00:10:58.849>devoir <00:10:59.049>d<00:10:59.249>'élève, <00:10:59.789>de <00:10:59.869>fait <00:11:00.089>je <00:11:00.269>mettrai <00:11:00.529>dans <00:11:00.629>la <00:11:00.749>marge, <00:11:01.629>confus, <00:11:03.009>peu <00:11:03.109>clair, <00:11:03.749>préciser <00:11:04.229>votre <00:11:04.369>pensée,

00:11:05.569 --> 00:11:08.089
quel <00:11:05.909>est <00:11:06.049>le <00:11:06.149>sujet, <00:11:06.849>recentrez<00:11:07.329>-vous <00:11:07.469>sur <00:11:07.629>le <00:11:07.729>sujet,

00:11:08.529 --> 00:11:11.989
qui <00:11:08.729>normalement <00:11:09.189>devraient <00:11:09.609>être <00:11:09.869>le <00:11:10.409>dialogue <00:11:10.729>avec <00:11:10.969>les <00:11:11.209>religions.

00:11:12.369 --> 00:11:15.369
On devrait <00:11:12.609>discuter <00:11:13.209>religion <00:11:14.149>avec <00:11:14.529>les <00:11:14.769>religions.

00:11:15.689 --> 00:11:17.989
On <00:11:15.789>ne <00:11:15.889>discute <00:11:16.209>pas <00:11:16.349>de <00:11:16.469>sociologie <00:11:17.209>avec <00:11:17.409>les <00:11:17.589>religions,

00:11:18.129 --> 00:11:20.049
on ne <00:11:18.209>discute <00:11:18.509>pas <00:11:18.649>de <00:11:18.749>culture <00:11:19.129>avec <00:11:19.389>les <00:11:19.569>religions.

00:11:20.909 --> 00:11:23.409
Donc, <00:11:21.329>il <00:11:21.509>y <00:11:21.649>a <00:11:21.829>une <00:11:22.189>inédéquation,

00:11:24.189 --> 00:11:25.949
un <00:11:24.769>décalage <00:11:25.349>entre <00:11:25.589>le...

00:11:26.124 --> 00:11:29.684
le <00:11:26.684>but est <00:11:27.164>d<00:11:27.544>'éclairer <00:11:28.284>du <00:11:28.844>texte,

00:11:29.684 --> 00:11:33.184
d<00:11:29.904>'éclaration <00:11:30.544>sur <00:11:30.764>les <00:11:31.004>relations <00:11:31.504>de <00:11:32.124>l<00:11:32.244>'Église <00:11:32.624>catholique

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avec <00:11:33.424>les <00:11:33.604>religions <00:11:33.944>nocretiennes,

00:11:34.884 --> 00:11:38.484
et <00:11:35.044>le <00:11:35.184>résultat <00:11:36.084>qui <00:11:36.304>est <00:11:36.504>un <00:11:36.644>dialogue <00:11:37.284>four<00:11:38.164>-tout.

00:11:39.352 --> 00:11:44.652
Effectivement, <00:11:40.772>si <00:11:41.232>j<00:11:41.292>'ai <00:11:41.372>des <00:11:41.512>amis <00:11:41.712>musulmans <00:11:42.252>ou <00:11:42.392>juifs, <00:11:43.072>je <00:11:43.192>peux <00:11:43.372>aussi <00:11:43.572>bien <00:11:43.812>parler <00:11:44.072>avec <00:11:44.352>eux

00:11:44.652 --> 00:11:53.892
de <00:11:45.732>cinéma, <00:11:47.112>de <00:11:47.572>pétanques <00:11:49.812>ou <00:11:50.512>des <00:11:51.232>prochaines <00:11:51.572>vacances <00:11:51.892>au <00:11:52.012>ski, <00:11:52.872>je <00:11:52.992>ne <00:11:53.072>vois <00:11:53.212>pas <00:11:53.372>en <00:11:53.572>quoi.

00:11:54.269 --> 00:12:00.249
la <00:11:54.629>mystique <00:11:55.869>juive <00:11:56.649>ou <00:11:57.169>la <00:11:57.369>mystique <00:11:58.029>ou <00:11:58.209>la <00:11:58.329>théologie <00:11:58.849>musulmane <00:11:59.609>sera <00:11:59.729>impliquée

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là <00:12:00.369>dedans.

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Donc <00:12:01.389>ma <00:12:02.109>sévérité <00:12:02.769>vient <00:12:03.109>du <00:12:03.349>fait

00:12:03.729 --> 00:12:07.409
qu<00:12:04.429>'on <00:12:04.509>est <00:12:04.649>déçu <00:12:05.289>par <00:12:05.849>une <00:12:06.209>ambition <00:12:06.689>immense

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reconstruire <00:12:09.369>un <00:12:09.489>dialogue

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fraternel <00:12:11.249>avec <00:12:11.469>les <00:12:11.629>religions <00:12:11.969>du <00:12:12.129>monde <00:12:12.309>entier, <00:12:13.329>et <00:12:13.389>la <00:12:14.549>réalité <00:12:14.909>pratique <00:12:15.549>qui <00:12:16.289>est <00:12:16.469>tirée <00:12:17.389>de <00:12:17.549>ce

00:12:17.729 --> 00:12:24.809
dialogue, <00:12:18.329>à savoir, <00:12:19.229>un <00:12:19.409>minimum, <00:12:20.229>une <00:12:20.609>espèce <00:12:21.229>de <00:12:21.389>smic <00:12:21.869>social, <00:12:23.049>justice, <00:12:24.089>paix, <00:12:24.529>amitié.

00:12:26.293 --> 00:12:32.193
fraternité, <00:12:26.733>culture, <00:12:28.053>l<00:12:28.193>'attention <00:12:28.553>va <00:12:28.753>arriver <00:12:28.933>à <00:12:29.073>peu <00:12:29.133>près <00:12:29.313>à <00:12:29.453>s<00:12:29.533>'entendre <00:12:29.913>et <00:12:30.233>ce <00:12:30.333>n<00:12:30.373>'est <00:12:30.413>pas <00:12:30.533>honnête, <00:12:31.113>ce <00:12:31.793>n<00:12:31.873>'est <00:12:31.993>pas

00:12:32.193 --> 00:12:38.513
ce <00:12:32.753>n<00:12:33.213>'est <00:12:33.313>pas <00:12:33.573>le <00:12:33.993>discours <00:12:35.833>vrai <00:12:36.413>auquel <00:12:36.753>nous <00:12:36.893>a <00:12:37.013>habitué <00:12:37.313>l<00:12:37.373>'église <00:12:37.753>depuis <00:12:37.973>2000 <00:12:38.233>ans.

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Énorme, <00:12:49.555>absolument <00:12:49.915>énorme, <00:12:50.855>absolument <00:12:51.195>énorme, <00:12:51.795>après <00:12:51.975>le <00:12:52.795>concil <00:12:53.075>j<00:12:53.175>'étais <00:12:53.275>un <00:12:53.395>petit <00:12:53.535>jeune <00:12:53.715>homme, <00:12:54.275>dans <00:12:54.415>les <00:12:54.535>années <00:12:54.615>70 <00:12:55.075>j<00:12:55.295>'étais <00:12:55.475>étudiant, <00:12:56.535>j<00:12:56.615>'ai <00:12:56.675>vu <00:12:56.875>autour <00:12:57.075>de <00:12:57.295>moi <00:12:57.615>le <00:12:59.535>dialogue <00:12:59.935>judéo<00:13:00.375>-chrétien, <00:13:01.135>beaucoup <00:13:01.315>plus <00:13:01.535>que <00:13:01.635>le <00:13:01.735>dialogue <00:13:02.035>islamo<00:13:02.455>-chrétien <00:13:02.795>qui <00:13:02.895>n<00:13:02.995>'existait <00:13:03.315>pratiquement <00:13:03.735>pas, <00:13:04.515>ne <00:13:05.535>serait<00:13:05.635>-ce <00:13:05.715>que <00:13:05.815>parce <00:13:05.935>que <00:13:06.055>pour <00:13:06.195>la <00:13:06.315>France, <00:13:06.855>la <00:13:07.095>présence <00:13:07.535>est <00:13:08.295>très grande.

00:13:08.734 --> 00:13:22.414
d<00:13:09.194>'un <00:13:09.274>islam, <00:13:10.194>disons, <00:13:11.574>enraciné, <00:13:12.254>n<00:13:12.754>'était <00:13:12.834>pas, <00:13:13.174>n<00:13:13.394>'existait <00:13:13.954>pas, <00:13:14.274>enfin <00:13:14.434>n<00:13:14.554>'était <00:13:14.634>pas, <00:13:15.274>bon, <00:13:15.814>donc <00:13:15.914>j<00:13:16.094>'ai <00:13:16.194>vu <00:13:16.354>se <00:13:16.534>multiplier <00:13:16.954>les <00:13:17.234>cercles <00:13:17.754>judéo<00:13:18.074>-chrétiens, <00:13:18.634>les <00:13:18.734>cours <00:13:19.114>bibliques <00:13:19.594>judo<00:13:19.854>-chrétiens, <00:13:20.294>l<00:13:20.314>'apprentissage <00:13:20.874>de <00:13:21.194>l<00:13:21.314>'ébreu <00:13:21.554>par <00:13:21.694>des <00:13:21.854>chrétiens,

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tous <00:13:24.214>azimuts, <00:13:24.874>n<00:13:25.074>'importe <00:13:25.294>quel <00:13:25.714>jeune <00:13:26.334>chrétien <00:13:27.014>un <00:13:27.194>peu <00:13:27.294>intellectel <00:13:27.794>des <00:13:27.894>années <00:13:28.014>70, <00:13:29.214>80, <00:13:30.094>se <00:13:30.454>devait <00:13:30.854>de <00:13:30.974>faire <00:13:31.134>de <00:13:31.254>l<00:13:31.354>'ébreu, <00:13:31.714>d<00:13:31.754>'aller <00:13:31.874>en <00:13:32.034>Israël, <00:13:32.714>de <00:13:32.754>participer

00:13:33.565 --> 00:13:39.265
à <00:13:33.805>un <00:13:33.925>groupe <00:13:34.085>d<00:13:34.205>'amitié <00:13:34.425>judo<00:13:34.845>-chrétienne, <00:13:35.925>d<00:13:35.965>'apprendre <00:13:36.465>la <00:13:36.885>Torah, <00:13:37.885>d'aller <00:13:38.345>dans <00:13:38.505>une <00:13:38.645>synagogue

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avec <00:13:40.065>évidemment <00:13:40.485>le <00:13:40.645>retour <00:13:41.125>de <00:13:41.625>juif <00:13:41.985>présent <00:13:42.425>dans <00:13:42.645>les <00:13:42.765>institutures, <00:13:43.985>et <00:13:44.045>tout <00:13:44.325>cela <00:13:44.845>sans

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Sincèrement, <00:13:48.270>je <00:13:48.450>veux <00:13:48.530>dire, <00:13:49.590>les <00:13:49.670>Juifs <00:13:49.930>les <00:13:50.090>plus <00:13:51.110>avertis, <00:13:51.730>ils <00:13:51.750>reconnaissent, <00:13:52.710>sans <00:13:53.050>réel <00:13:53.450>avancé <00:13:53.810>théologique.

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On <00:13:55.790>est <00:13:55.870>dans <00:13:55.970>l<00:13:56.030>'amitié, <00:13:56.410>dans <00:13:56.470>la <00:13:56.550>fraternité.

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On <00:13:58.230>est <00:13:58.510>dans <00:13:58.890>l<00:13:59.610>'arrondissement <00:14:00.190>des <00:14:00.450>angles, <00:14:01.210>mais <00:14:01.570>les <00:14:02.350>Juifs <00:14:02.610>ne <00:14:02.710>reconnaissent <00:14:03.030>toujours <00:14:03.210>pas <00:14:03.390>d<00:14:03.450>'autres <00:14:03.510>seigneurs <00:14:03.890>pour <00:14:04.150>le <00:14:04.570>sauveur.

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L<00:14:06.270>'Église <00:14:06.890>est <00:14:06.970>toujours <00:14:07.190>perçue <00:14:07.610>comme <00:14:07.750>une <00:14:07.870>persécutrice, <00:14:09.150>le <00:14:09.290>judaïsme <00:14:09.810>comme <00:14:09.990>une <00:14:10.130>victime.

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J<00:14:12.642>'allais <00:14:12.802>dire, <00:14:13.982>on <00:14:14.102>a <00:14:14.222>appris <00:14:14.582>ensemble <00:14:15.302>à <00:14:16.022>faire <00:14:16.202>semblant, <00:14:16.882>à <00:14:17.082>faire <00:14:17.282>semblant <00:14:17.782>que, <00:14:18.322>que...

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que <00:14:20.918>l<00:14:21.018>'état <00:14:21.158>a <00:14:21.238>changé <00:14:22.218>et <00:14:22.358>qu<00:14:22.478>'on <00:14:22.598>peut <00:14:22.798>que <00:14:22.958>habiter

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intellectuellement

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en <00:14:26.498>reconnaissant <00:14:26.818>ou <00:14:26.938>en <00:14:26.998>reconnaissant <00:14:27.318>pas <00:14:27.458>le <00:14:27.538>Messie

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en <00:14:28.618>acceptant, <00:14:29.118>en <00:14:29.178>acceptant <00:14:29.558>pas <00:14:29.698>le <00:14:29.798>Nouveau<00:14:30.018>-Testament.

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Et <00:14:30.938>quand <00:14:31.078>j<00:14:31.178>'étais <00:14:31.318>étudiant, <00:14:32.238>j<00:14:33.358>'ai <00:14:33.418>vu <00:14:33.538>ça <00:14:33.698>donc <00:14:33.798>autour <00:14:34.018>de <00:14:34.198>moi.

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J<00:14:34.769>'ai <00:14:34.809>fait <00:14:34.929>moi<00:14:35.089>-même <00:14:35.209>de <00:14:35.329>l<00:14:35.429>'ébreu, <00:14:35.689>beaucoup <00:14:35.909>d<00:14:36.069>'ébreu <00:14:36.749>à <00:14:37.009>l<00:14:37.069>'école <00:14:37.209>des <00:14:37.389>langues <00:14:37.569>orientales.

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J<00:14:38.269>'avais <00:14:38.349>des <00:14:38.509>camarades <00:14:38.889>juifs <00:14:39.149>en <00:14:39.269>très <00:14:39.409>grand <00:14:39.589>nombre, <00:14:40.009>il <00:14:40.049>y a <00:14:40.089>un <00:14:40.189>tout <00:14:40.269>petit <00:14:40.469>nombre <00:14:40.669>de <00:14:40.889>camarades <00:14:41.369>chrétiens.

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Je <00:14:42.469>sentais <00:14:43.069>à <00:14:43.369>quel <00:14:43.529>point <00:14:43.909>il <00:14:44.669>y <00:14:44.729>avait <00:14:44.809>quelque <00:14:44.989>chose <00:14:45.509>de <00:14:46.729>faux <00:14:47.149>dans <00:14:47.309>ce <00:14:47.409>dialogue, <00:14:47.829>si <00:14:47.929>vous <00:14:48.069>voulez.

00:14:48.659 --> 00:14:56.019
d<00:14:49.199>'artificiel. <00:14:51.359>Le <00:14:51.879>chrétien <00:14:52.219>restait <00:14:52.539>chrétien, <00:14:53.239>le <00:14:53.339>juif <00:14:53.519>restait <00:14:53.839>juif <00:14:54.319>et <00:14:55.399>puis <00:14:55.519>dans <00:14:55.639>les <00:14:55.779>meilleurs

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des <00:14:56.159>cas, <00:14:57.079>le <00:14:57.139>chrétien, <00:14:57.979>j<00:14:58.699>'allais <00:14:58.859>dire, <00:14:59.199>se <00:14:59.339>judaïsait, <00:15:00.599>le <00:15:00.799>juif <00:15:01.239>ne <00:15:01.379>se <00:15:01.499>christianisait <00:15:02.019>pas <00:15:02.159>beaucoup.

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Et <00:15:03.719>je <00:15:03.859>pense <00:15:04.059>que...

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croyant <00:15:05.833>ou <00:15:05.953>pas, <00:15:06.473>un <00:15:06.493>historien <00:15:06.973>laïque, <00:15:07.833>verrait <00:15:08.513>les <00:15:08.613>choses <00:15:08.793>comme <00:15:08.993>je <00:15:09.133>l<00:15:09.253>'ai <00:15:09.293>dit. <00:15:09.653>C<00:15:09.673>'est <00:15:09.733>objectif.

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Une <00:15:12.113>judaisation <00:15:12.633>de <00:15:13.093>la <00:15:13.233>conception <00:15:13.653>de <00:15:13.973>l<00:15:14.053>'église, <00:15:14.913>mais <00:15:15.253>fort <00:15:15.573>peu <00:15:15.793>de <00:15:15.933>Christianisation <00:15:16.653>du <00:15:16.853>judaïsme <00:15:17.353>talmudique.

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Tout <00:15:19.607>au <00:15:19.807>plus, <00:15:20.727>mais <00:15:21.267>ça, <00:15:21.507>c'est <00:15:21.547>un <00:15:21.707>fruit <00:15:21.927>qui, <00:15:22.087>à <00:15:22.167>mon <00:15:22.247>avis, <00:15:22.547>n<00:15:22.607>'est <00:15:22.847>pas <00:15:23.027>un <00:15:23.167>fruit <00:15:23.267>du <00:15:23.407>concil.

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Je <00:15:24.287>pense <00:15:24.447>que <00:15:24.587>c<00:15:24.667>'est <00:15:24.707>un <00:15:24.867>fruit <00:15:25.247>des <00:15:26.207>immenses <00:15:27.227>papes <00:15:27.507>que <00:15:27.587>nous <00:15:27.687>avons <00:15:27.927>eues <00:15:28.727>avec <00:15:29.107>Saint<00:15:30.467>-Pydice,

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avec <00:15:31.427>le <00:15:32.847>politique <00:15:33.347>Puyonce <00:15:33.927>qui <00:15:34.007>fut <00:15:34.367>un <00:15:34.567>grand<00:15:34.907>-pap <00:15:35.107>à <00:15:35.207>sa <00:15:35.307>manière <00:15:35.687>depuis <00:15:36.507>12.

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une <00:15:38.046>sympathique <00:15:39.406>quand <00:15:39.626>même <00:15:39.866>pour <00:15:40.086>le <00:15:40.186>christianisme <00:15:40.726>de <00:15:40.846>la <00:15:40.926>part <00:15:41.066>des <00:15:41.226>intellectuels <00:15:41.726>juifs

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mais <00:15:42.486>c<00:15:42.606>'est <00:15:42.626>les <00:15:42.726>années <00:15:42.906>20, <00:15:43.206>les <00:15:43.286>années <00:15:43.406>30, <00:15:43.806>les <00:15:44.246>années <00:15:44.386>40

00:15:45.306 --> 00:15:49.046
l<00:15:45.546>'église <00:15:45.826>a <00:15:45.926>séduit <00:15:46.346>beaucoup <00:15:46.486>d<00:15:46.606>'intellectuels <00:15:47.086>juifs <00:15:47.606>comme <00:15:47.786>Edith <00:15:48.086>Stein <00:15:48.346>par <00:15:48.546>exemple

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mais <00:15:49.826>c<00:15:50.426>'est <00:15:50.466>pas <00:15:50.566>le <00:15:50.666>concil

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le <00:15:52.726>concil <00:15:53.126>a <00:15:53.226>brouillé <00:15:53.726>les <00:15:53.886>pistes

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et <00:15:55.046>a <00:15:55.226>fait <00:15:55.326>à <00:15:55.646>mon <00:15:55.766>avis <00:15:55.926>plus <00:15:56.146>de <00:15:56.286>mal <00:15:56.426>que <00:15:56.546>de <00:15:56.646>bien

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là <00:15:57.406>où <00:15:57.666>l<00:15:57.866>'église <00:15:58.146>des <00:15:58.226>années <00:15:58.346>30 <00:15:58.546>et <00:15:58.566>40 <00:15:58.986>séduisait <00:15:59.806>les <00:15:59.886>intellectuels <00:16:00.366>juifs <00:16:00.706>et <00:16:00.786>les

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amenait <00:16:01.246>peu <00:16:01.446>à <00:16:01.626>peu

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à <00:16:02.366>la <00:16:02.446>conversion

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Donc <00:16:03.800>voyez, <00:16:04.120>quand <00:16:04.200>vous <00:16:04.320>me <00:16:04.400>demandez <00:16:04.620>les <00:16:04.740>fruits, <00:16:05.800>je <00:16:05.880>pense <00:16:06.060>peu <00:16:06.340>de <00:16:06.440>fruits <00:16:06.540>positifs, <00:16:07.440>alors <00:16:07.700>qu<00:16:07.920>'au <00:16:08.500>contraire <00:16:09.140>l<00:16:09.540>'église <00:16:10.040>des <00:16:10.220>années <00:16:10.480>30 <00:16:11.000>qui

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maintenait <00:16:11.600>une <00:16:11.700>doctrine <00:16:11.980>très <00:16:12.880>ferme <00:16:14.020>et <00:16:14.280>très <00:16:15.100>claire, <00:16:16.080>avait <00:16:16.480>celui <00:16:16.760>beaucoup <00:16:17.200>de <00:16:17.380>juifs <00:16:17.660>au <00:16:17.780>point <00:16:17.980>qu<00:16:18.100>'on <00:16:18.140>le <00:16:18.280>sait.

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dans <00:16:19.301>les <00:16:19.421>années <00:16:19.561>1942, <00:16:20.081>lorsque <00:16:20.681>les <00:16:20.881>Allemands <00:16:21.301>ont <00:16:22.561>rafflait <00:16:23.241>les <00:16:23.861>quantités <00:16:24.741>de <00:16:24.881>religieux <00:16:25.381>de <00:16:25.521>religieux <00:16:25.921>de <00:16:26.141>prêtre <00:16:26.561>juif <00:16:27.081>converti <00:16:27.621>au <00:16:27.701>christianisme <00:16:28.381>en <00:16:28.541>Hollande,

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c'était <00:16:29.601>par <00:16:29.761>milliers, <00:16:30.481>c<00:16:30.601>'était <00:16:30.721>par <00:16:30.881>milliers <00:16:31.421>que <00:16:31.841>l<00:16:31.941>'on <00:16:31.981>a <00:16:32.121>arrêté <00:16:32.701>des <00:16:33.321>prêtes, <00:16:34.221>des <00:16:34.301>religieux <00:16:34.781>et <00:16:34.881>des <00:16:34.941>religieuses <00:16:35.541>d<00:16:35.721>'origine <00:16:35.921>juif <00:16:36.381>qui <00:16:36.701>avait <00:16:36.801>arbre <00:16:36.961>à <00:16:37.001>c<00:16:37.081>'est <00:16:37.121>le christianisme.

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Je <00:16:38.561>doute <00:16:38.721>fort <00:16:39.041>qu<00:16:39.281>'on <00:16:39.321>puisse <00:16:39.501>avoir <00:16:39.821>les <00:16:40.021>mêmes <00:16:40.441>chiffres <00:16:40.801>de <00:16:40.941>conversion <00:16:41.341>au <00:16:41.801>christianisme <00:16:42.381>aujourd<00:16:42.581>'hui <00:16:42.961>dans <00:16:43.141>ce <00:16:43.281>dialogue <00:16:43.461>judo<00:16:43.741>-cretien.