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Closing Liturgy

Closing Eucharistic Liturgy | Los Angeles Religious Education Congress 2010
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REVTHREEVS21
Jt: Why don't we let the Holy Father Benedict XVI, speak for himself, concerning the New Mass. A 1999 letter by then Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI)
on the reform of the Liturgy Fr. Matias Auge CMF, a veteran professor of liturgy in Rome, former consultant to the Congregation for Divine Worship and disciple of the reformers of the 1960's, publishedan exchange of letters that he had with … More
REVTHREEVS21
The Visibility of the Church is directly linked to the Roman Pontiff. And while during an interregnum the church is "Popeless," for a short period of time, this is not a part of the ordinary constitution of the Church and must necessarily be of short duration. The longest interregnum in the Church to date is less than three years. If the sedevacantists are right, then the present interregnum is … More
JTLiuzza
@ F Loughnan: "”Canon I. If anyone saith that in the Mass a true and proper sacrifice is not offered to God…let him be anathema."

What Mass would that be, Father? Certainly not the Mass of Paul VI which hadn't been "invented" yet. Even the Holy Father has described the Novus Ordo as is generally practiced as a "banal, on the spot product." His words. But a sacrifice is offered at some point.

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ndnap1
This mass is more about the community, tolerance, inculturation and love than about sacrifice to God. This is a human inspired liturgy, rather than that of the Divine. This mass does not express the sacraments the way Christ established it.
thebedards
PROTESTANTS, Radical traditionalist, non-judgmental-judgmentalist, AND OTHER NON-CATHOLICS DO NOT HAVE THE FAITH
Now it is manifest that he who adheres to the teaching of the Church, as to an infallible rule, assents to whatever the Church teaches; otherwise, if, of the things taught by the Church, he holds what he chooses to hold, and rejects what he chooses to reject, he no longer adheres… More
woody437
all you have prove is that anti-pope paul vi is liar and he is the anti-Christ

It is also not for me to provide a "proof" - for you belong to a non-Catholic sect

so it's against new church policies to convert people to the new church

A Pope can never fall in to heresy

A Pope can never teach heresy in his extraordinary or ordinarily magisterium

Further more, I have not claimed to be Pope or … More
woody437
You prove to me that the
Novus Ordo Rite is the Roman Rite, ? Please prove to me the impossible

You prove to me that Roman rite was not done away with, ?

I don't care about, what Anti-Pope
benedict XVI saids anti-pope paul VI outlawed the Roman Rite, ST.PIUS V said infallibility that the Roman rite has perpetual to end of time, a true Pope has power of the keys. Each pope has the same … More
thebedards
rhemes,Yep, that's what he did! No surprise to me. No use in arguing with him, he is a slave to his intellect, full of intellectual arrogance, pride and anger. One good thing came out of this thread for me, I know that you are not a radical traditionalist. NEVER let protestants like woody confuse you. Now you know what questions to ask.

God Bless You,
Happy Easter,
John
woody437
J.Salza in his article says, Trent and Nicea II saids a Pope can impose a harmful rite upon the Church. Trent anathematized anyone who would create a new rite, so it obviously contemplated that such could occur. Nicea II also anathematized anyone who would set aside the ecclesiastical traditions of the Church.The Pope Promulgation of the new rite did not invoke the pope's charism of infallibility… More
woody437
I will answer the question . LATER!!

if I was A sedevacantist, it would be no need to answer your question,
woody437
. John loughnan
"The Pope, the council,and the mass" are the Authors James Likoudis and Kennedy D. Whitehead ,The article is "A DEFENCE OF THE PAULINE MASS" which as similar responses as the book . In the article as page reference to

Whitehead, p. 59-60).
(Whitehead, p. 46-47).
Whitehead, p. 78)
(Whitehead, p. 80).
(Whitehead, 82).
(Whitehead, p. 85).
(Whitehead, 120).
(Whitehead, 131
(Whitehea… More
woody437
The Pope can

Viva Cristo Rey !

impose a harmful rite upon the Church as Trent and Nicea II says. so its obviously contemplated that such could occur. Trent and Nicea II also anathematized anyone who would set aside the ecclesiastical traditions of the Church. Pope Paul VI did not invoke the pope's charism of infallibility when he promulgated the Novus Ordo. Further more he never juridically … More
thebedards
F John Loughnan,
John They should NOT have the Precious Blood in glass containers, PERIOD! In California, like many other places, the emphasis is on a "meal". They should have had just the Host for all of those people. How much of our Lords Blood was spilled? I have seen SO MUCH abuse of this kind in liberal parishes, It's awful! Consecrating the Precious Blood the way they did is not allowed, … More
thebedards
F. John Loughnan,
I must admit that really I don't mind when you level you guns at Woody. I think in debate he needs to be shocked back to his senses! He espouses
an all out attack on Holy Mother Church. I see very little difference between him and some of the Baptists down here in Kentucky. He like them are ALWAYS attacking the authority of the Church, which, by the way, belongs to Jesus Christ, who IS God!

John
thebedards
F. John Loughnan,
SORRY, John you went over the top with rhemes. You haven't read all of rhemes post in this thread. My dear friend you didn't leave you anger with the SSPX. Listen I felt ripped off by all the years I didn't hear all the truth from the pulpit in a liberal parish in Ca. I also had to endure a lot of liturgical ABUSE, man could I tell you stories, but I agree the Mass was valid. … More
thebedards
Woody,Is the Novus Ordo Mass valid?

John
holyrope1
woody & rhemes.... More
woody437
thebedards, that comment was not attended for you. it's funny that you didn't answer the first question.it was not a trick. by your other answers. I presume you're saying that false religions are not means of salvation.
Pius XI said that those who are invincibly ignorant of the Church may still be saved, but this is a narrow exception to the divine rule. Pius IX condemned the notion that those … More
thebedards
Fr. John Loughnan,I noticed that you had an article by Art Sippo. He post in this forum a lot:www.surprisedbytruth.com/forum

It's a very good forum, WELL, maybe not for radical traditionalist.

John
thebedards
Woody,Do you really think I'm going to respond and debate you when you start quoting "experts" you think justify you protesting position? I answered your questions and quoted the catechism. That's why I asked if you had one. You said you had 4. Do you have a problem with the Catechism? If I want to hear liberal or rad-trad opinions I can find a disobedient "Catholic" news paper. Plenty of "experts" there!

John
thebedards
Holyrope posted:woody437 & rhemes1582

Something tells me you are not one of "Their" crowd, an I right?

John
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holyrope1
woody437 & rhemes1582 More
woody437
John, are you still reading your Bible,The Pope, the Council, and the Mass" it's all over your website here is a rebuttal by Alcuin Reid, O.S.B catholic liturgists. he has good book coming out called Continuity or Rupture? A Study of The Liturgical Reform of the Second Vatican Council
Author: Dr. Alcuin Reid

There are questions which render the republication of this book a little curious, even … More
woody437
The Priest is acting like a tradesmen at market behind a table selling some bread and baskets, wine, orange juice Jugs.
he has been working at the market for a long time and he sees his friends coming. He goes out to cuddle kiss his friends and in the market place their is music bands he and his friends start singing songs and some new age dancer's are coming to join in. And has friends say NO!!.… More
thebedards
Woody,Just a little side note: It's my opinion, that most people in the Catholic Church will not be saved.

John
thebedards
Yes thebedards I have four Catechism's

Question 1 do you believe that false religions are means of salvation. ?
By a false religion do you mean a religion that would teach that Vatican II was corrupt or the Novus Ordo Mass was not valid?

Question 2 do you believe the Catholic Church is the one and only ark of salvation. ?
I believe that the Catholic Church is the TRUE Church instituted by God

More
thebedards
"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

847
This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of … More
kfarley
woody-you and Ronald McDonald have the same weight in your opinion of the Catholic Church-you're not part of the Church-you are a schismatic SSPX-a clueless rebel.
Iacobus
@jabulon:

Yeah, looks like some kind of Alien-Religion in Star Trek ...

...live long and prosper and may the force be with you!
jabulon
Great Outfits! Right after that they attack the death star with general Akbar!
Elder
Friends, after this video really want to think about church affiliation: Orthodox or Catholic.And if this was the first drop ..but it is not so, more reason to think that Vatican 2 was wrong.And if he is wrong, there is no confidence in Western Christianity as succumbed to the spirit of the times and change its ecclesiastical same, because that's what I see in this video can not be reconciled with the teachings and practices of the Church since ancient times ..
thebedards
Hi Woody,Do you own a Catechism? It would help if I knew that you had one.
John
thebedards
Thank You rhemes!I just don't have a lot of patience with the Radical Traditionalist. Some of them a lurking here. I'm 60 years old and grew up with the Latin Mass, I love it, but prefer the Novus Ordo. I attend Mass at The Fathers of Mercy in Kentucky. It's beautiful! You said: "That is the perfect litmus test to see if you are talking with a Catholic in communion with Rome". I am so happy for … More
woody437
thebedards
I agree when you say that anyone who doesn't accept the magisterium off all time are not-Catholic
Ultra-Conservatives what does that mean you don't get different degrees of catholicism in the catholic church your either Catholic or not period!!! Example either believe in the dogma outside the church. There is no salvation or you don't.
thebedards
Rhemes,I can see how you could have misunderstood my post. Please read it again. I'm sorry for the confusion. Do you think that the Novus Ordo Mass is valid? I'm not talking about the one in the above video. Again, that kind of liturgical abuse is one of the big reasons I left Ca. Same question to you holyrope.

God Bless You,
John
thebedards
holyrope & rhemes: "Anyone who has a problem with tradition has a problem with the Church" and "I wish you would not use the blanket statement traditionals". Exactly, no one can be an obedient Catholic without accepting the traditions of the Church and no one should make a blanket statement. Please dont "Spin" my words. I said ULTR-conservatives. Those Catholics "may" be the ones who spin the … More
Misericordia
@thebedards

........... the ultra conservatives are truly Protestant.........

Can you please explain your statement?!
elisabethvonthüringen
Bobby, die Redaktion löscht da gar nichts, das macht Frau Lisi Sterndorfer, sie hat dazu das Recht und auch die Möglichkeit.
Bitte GTV Spielregeln beachten!!!!
DoctorAngelicus
Herr "Bobby"!
Wer hatte behauptet, diese Messe sei a) nicht katholische und b) nicht voll gültig?
elisabethvonthüringen
.......können sich davon eine Scheibe abschneiden, ja, Bobby, und auch gleich essen...es ist ja schon geschnittenes Brot vorhanden ...bei diesen Massen(m)essen...
DoctorAngelicus
Wie gesagt: Ich habe wirkliches Verständnis dafür, wenn Menschen "Massenmessen" grundsätzlich für nicht unproblematisch halten, wie etwa der Theologe Mag. Michael Gurtner, da es hierbei ja leichter zu Entehrungen des Allerheiligsten usw. kommen kann.
Es kommt dabei natürlich vor allem darauf an, wie die "Massenmesse" "aufgezogen" ist. Es gibt wunderbar andächtige, würdige und fromme Massenmessen… More
Bobby
Wer löscht hier dauernd meinen Kommentar? Was soll das? Ich bleibe dabei: Bitte mehr von diesen "Liturgieskandalen" auch bei uns!!!
Radabah
How many litugical abuses can you find?
holyrope1
Anyone who has a problem with tradition has a problem with the Church.
thebedards
I lived about a mile from where this takes place in Ca. for 45 years. It is one of the big reasons I left Ca. The Church is in BIG TROUBLE in America. I often thank Jesus that I didn't get involved with the "Traditional Movement" as they tried to get their hooks in me. They are the other side of the coin, just more insidious. The ultra liberals and the ultra conservatives are truly Protestant! … More
Märilu
okay, okay, ich bin überzeugt, das hier hat mir den Rest gegeben:

Liturgical Abuses in front of 40 000....

Die "Tempeltänzerinnen"....

wenns nicht so traurig wäre, wäre es zum Lachen.
Kritikus
Ich finde es grundsätzlich toll, dass so viele Menschen diese heilige Messe mitfeiern. Klar ist die Atmosphäre an einer solchen Massenmesse anders als in einer Pfarrkirche. Dort sind die Priester manchmal ziemlich einsam...
Wenn unser Papst auf Reisen geht, werden auch jeweils Messen mit Tausenden Gläubigen gefeiert. Organisatorisch muss das irgendwie bewältigt werden, so dass halt liebgewordene … More
DoctorAngelicus
"Skandalös"

ist da gar nichts...

Allenfalls kann man die Gestaltung hier als "unpassend" kritisieren oder einige Formen von "Massenmessen" ganz allgemein als nicht unproblematisch ansehen...