Donald Trump: False Compromise of the Pro Life Community

Abramo

Jul 14, 2016

@SAA5of5 : Obviously I am not speaking about the Catholic Church as such but, as you rightly say, "a (clear) majority of her current members (especially popes, cardinals, bishops and priests)". I would believe that among the bishops of Western Europe (the Pope included), there are not five who have unequivocally positioned themselves as pro-life. I know it is horrible what I am writing now: Do we …More

@SAA5of5 : Obviously I am not speaking about the Catholic Church as such but, as you rightly say, "a (clear) majority of her current members (especially popes, cardinals, bishops and priests)". I would believe that among the bishops of Western Europe (the Pope included), there are not five who have unequivocally positioned themselves as pro-life. I know it is horrible what I am writing now: Do we expect from a candidate for the U.S. presidency to be more Catholic than the Pope? That seems to be very unrealistic.

SAA5of5

Jul 14, 2016

@Abramo, to say, "nor any Republican or Democrat," I understand if you are pointing out the failure of previous so-called life-supporting presidents. But to suggest it into infinity is saying abandon ship and run ... where? I think we had good candidates and the American people opted for...well, for a good laugh and some hope that all of Trump's (questionable), "winning" would end up in their wallets. …More

@Abramo, to say, "nor any Republican or Democrat," I understand if you are pointing out the failure of previous so-called life-supporting presidents. But to suggest it into infinity is saying abandon ship and run ... where? I think we had good candidates and the American people opted for...well, for a good laugh and some hope that all of Trump's (questionable), "winning" would end up in their wallets.

I agree the candidates can't rely on a, "Catholic vote" as they did at one time. The people in the pews are very divided on major issues that would be considered either, "liberal" or "conservative."

Since you brought up the Catholic Church and her bishops, I am going to guess that the division in the Church is not 50/50 but rather "many" vs. "few," and pretty much the same distinction Cardinal Wuerl recently pointed to when discussing those unhappy with Pope Francis. If the Catholic Church is defined this way, I'm not Catholic. But you're "egging me on"

because I don't think you believe this defines the Catholic Church but only a majority of her current members.

Abramo

Jul 14, 2016

@SAA5of5 : I agree that if you make abortion the main issue (as it should be) then you cannot elect neither Trump, nor Killary, nor any Republican or Democrat because even if they talk pro-life before the elections, once they are elected, they do the opposite. If we make abortion the main issue, we cannot even continue to be in (what is left from) the Catholic Church. E.g. Cardinal Schoenborn (the …More

@SAA5of5 : I agree that if you make abortion the main issue (as it should be) then you cannot elect neither Trump, nor Killary, nor any Republican or Democrat because even if they talk pro-life before the elections, once they are elected, they do the opposite. If we make abortion the main issue, we cannot even continue to be in (what is left from) the Catholic Church. E.g. Cardinal Schoenborn (the main counselor of Pope Bergoglio in matters of morals) has stated more than once that he is pro-choice. He is by far not the only pro-choice bishop. The Vatican knows this and accepts it: qui tacet consentire videtur. Is the present Catholic Church pro-life? It isn't.

SAA5of5

Jul 14, 2016

One thing is pretty certain, @Abramo, that Trump has no intention of being subservient to the Republicans. For one, he's ok with the notion of the Democrats winning the senate in November. For another, as Fr. Guarnizo's article mentions, Trump has promised to add abortion into the GOP platform. The fact that even the most dedicated pro-lifers are willing to cross that line is beyond comprehension.

Abramo

Jul 14, 2016

I did not know that collaborators or Trump are "swingers" or were counselors of Yanoukovich (who was not a bigger thief than the present Ukrainian president), but it is a matter of fact that Trump looks MUCH better than Killary Klinton. I am the first not to agree with is stupid anti-Latino rhetoric although I agree with him that a state for obvious reasons cannot allow illegal immigration. But …More

I did not know that collaborators or Trump are "swingers" or were counselors of Yanoukovich (who was not a bigger thief than the present Ukrainian president), but it is a matter of fact that Trump looks MUCH better than Killary Klinton. I am the first not to agree with is stupid anti-Latino rhetoric although I agree with him that a state for obvious reasons cannot allow illegal immigration. But there is a chance that he could hit a blow to the present political corruption. There is a little chance that he would not be another "Republican president" subservient to the Democrats.

Uncle Joe

Jul 14, 2016

Dear Fr. Marcel,
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We will deal with whatever comes via the presidency.
When we can affect a change from 8 years of arguably the most pro-sodomy and pro-abort president in history, it is our duty to do it.
America is in God's hands.
Very true and so is the world and so am I and so are you.
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I made the first post on this thread and, in the flurry …More

Dear Fr. Marcel,

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We will deal with whatever comes via the presidency.

When we can affect a change from 8 years of arguably the most pro-sodomy and pro-abort president in history, it is our duty to do it.

America is in God's hands.

Very true and so is the world and so am I and so are you.

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I made the first post on this thread and, in the flurry of posts that followed, it may have gotten lost so I would like to repeat it. In fact, I would ask this question of any Catholic/Christian who is torn over the choices of who to vote for in this coming presidential election.
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As you know, It is the president who will make nominations to the Supreme Court and those nominations must only then be confirmed by the Senate. Therefore, it is the president who obviously is the most crucial person in the process of populating the court with whomever he/she believes most closely corresponds to their own political objectives. I don't intend to follow up or to argue about other points but simply would like you to go on the record with your answer. God bless.

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To repeat:
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I have one question. Which of the two candidates would you prefer making Supreme Court nominations (as many as 3 or 4 or perhaps even 5) knowing that those nominations would likely influence the policies of the United States for decades. . Hillary?

Father Marcel

Jul 14, 2016

Don Reto: Yes, I believe we must avoid the false compromise with either candidate and fight for the senate and house. We will deal with whatever comes via the presidency. America is in God's hands. But some of us, Robbie George, George Will, Andy McCarthy and many more, cannot counsel in good conscience a Trump vote.
This is also not the case of the lesser evil valid when supporting legislation …More

Don Reto: Yes, I believe we must avoid the false compromise with either candidate and fight for the senate and house. We will deal with whatever comes via the presidency. America is in God's hands. But some of us, Robbie George, George Will, Andy McCarthy and many more, cannot counsel in good conscience a Trump vote.

This is also not the case of the lesser evil valid when supporting legislation that decreases abortion but is not enough to eliminate it. So many Catholics seemed confused about this as well. Just 10 years ago this would not have even been a discussion. Morals, standards and reason are fading rapidly in the West. Trump exemplifies the basest characteristics in a politician and as I have argued is not mentally sane. Trump is as you state, hoping without hope.

Don Reto Nay

Jul 13, 2016

@Father Marcel: I would believe that hoping in the Republican establishment (= Republicans who hold an office) is hoping without hope. Time and again Republicans and Democrats have shown that they are not two different parties. I believe that a big majority of the Republican beltway prefers Killary Klinton to Donald Trump which says it all about the hopes we can put in the Republicans.

Father Marcel

Jul 13, 2016

Don Reto,
I hope you and your audience are not confusing a no vote on Trump or Clinton, for not voting at all. On November 8th 2016, there will be 34 senate seats in dispute. As well as 435 seats for the House of Representatives. Indeed we will not only be voting but trying to secure the other branch of government that can help keep either Trump or Hillary in check. As for SCOTUS, you should be …More

Don Reto,
I hope you and your audience are not confusing a no vote on Trump or Clinton, for not voting at all. On November 8th 2016, there will be 34 senate seats in dispute. As well as 435 seats for the House of Representatives. Indeed we will not only be voting but trying to secure the other branch of government that can help keep either Trump or Hillary in check. As for SCOTUS, you should be putting pressure on the Republicans to simply refuse to confirm any and all radical justices that either Trump or Hillary may nominate. Come what may. The democrats certainly are ready to go the distance to make it impossible to confirm pro life justices. About the greater danger that Trump poses to democracy, I am yet to write.

SAA5of5

Jul 13, 2016

@Uncle Joe , I, for one, am not holding my breath over these words of Oklahoma Gov. Mary Fallin, co-chair of the platform committee: "Donald Trump will have representation as the platform is finalized, but the platform is, 'driven by grassroots Republican people' who represent the party's, 'values and principles.'"
I'm not considering right now the how, but that we must. If "most Catholics" think …More

@Uncle Joe , I, for one, am not holding my breath over these words of Oklahoma Gov. Mary Fallin, co-chair of the platform committee: "Donald Trump will have representation as the platform is finalized, but the platform is, 'driven by grassroots Republican people' who represent the party's, 'values and principles.'"

I'm not considering right now the how, but that we must. If "most Catholics" think their souls are secure while supporting exceptions of rape, incest and the life of the mother, they need to comprehend that such exceptions, wherever they exist, guarantee abortion will continue unimpeded. Flagrant late-term abortionist Carhart himself is quite proud of the fact that he "fits" the woman's story to what will be legally permitted.

@Don Reto Nay I'm not convinced he can hardly be worse, but "holding our noses" as I hear constantly among pro-lifers and voting for, "the lesser of two evils" and demanding everyone else has an obligation to do the same is wrong and dangerous. I don't see how the people of the U.S. can cheerfully support someone promising to add abortion into the GOP platform.

Uncle Joe

Jul 13, 2016

Dear Don Reto Nay,
Ruthie is a shriveled up old hag who should have retired years ago.More

Dear Don Reto Nay,

Ruthie is a shriveled up old hag who should have retired years ago.

Don Reto Nay

Jul 13, 2016

Trump has never been in politics, so it is very difficult to say what he will eventually do. My pious wish: Trump can hardly be worse than the Democratic and Republican presidents of the past.

Uncle Joe

Jul 13, 2016

Dear SAA5of5
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Whether or not abortion is added to the platform will not be done at this time by anybody. As far as I know, the platform (totally or partially) can be rejected by the candidate anyway. Besides, how can we ask a political candidate to forbid what most Catholics want to be legal? Ditto for 'same sex marriage.' en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_and_th…
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The Supreme Court is the main …More

Dear SAA5of5
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Whether or not abortion is added to the platform will not be done at this time by anybody. As far as I know, the platform (totally or partially) can be rejected by the candidate anyway. Besides, how can we ask a political candidate to forbid what most Catholics want to be legal? Ditto for 'same sex marriage.' en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_and_th…
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The Supreme Court is the main thing.

SAA5of5

Jul 13, 2016

Would Donald Trump ADD abortion to the GOP platform for the first time in history? Quoted in the article, with April 21, 2016 source: “Yes I would. Yes I would. Absolutely, for the three exceptions…I would absolutely have the three exceptions…”

Don Reto Nay

Jul 13, 2016

@Uncle Joe: "Ruth Bader Ginsburger said that Scalia's death was a good thing for the liberal agenda".

Uncle Joe

Jul 13, 2016

Dear SAA5of5,
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“Justice Scalia was a remarkable person and a brilliant Supreme Court Justice. His career was defined by his reverence for the Constitution and his legacy of protecting Americans’ most cherished freedoms. He was a Justice who did not believe in legislating from the bench and he is a person whom I held in the highest regard and will always greatly respect his intelligence and …More

Dear SAA5of5,
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“Justice Scalia was a remarkable person and a brilliant Supreme Court Justice. His career was defined by his reverence for the Constitution and his legacy of protecting Americans’ most cherished freedoms. He was a Justice who did not believe in legislating from the bench and he is a person whom I held in the highest regard and will always greatly respect his intelligence and conviction to uphold the Constitution of our country," Trump said in a statement. "The following list of potential Supreme Court justices is representative of the kind of constitutional principles I value and, as President, I plan to use this list as a guide to nominate our next United States Supreme Court Justices.”
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Read more: www.politico.com/…/trumps-supreme-…

Don Reto Nay

Jul 13, 2016

@SAA5of5 : Unfortunately we had quite a few SCOTUS nominees who were on the pro-lifer's wish list. But what became out of them?

SAA5of5

Jul 13, 2016

@Uncle Joe: "Perhaps even five" is an interesting choice of words. It's the same number of SCOTUS possibilities Trump has on his own list that he is not disclosing to pro-lifers. Hint: They are not on the pro-lifer's wish list, short or long.

Don Reto Nay

Jul 13, 2016

Politics is the art of what is possible. Trump is neither a Catholic nor much of a believer (divorcee) etc. But if Killary is not an option, who is the alternative if not Trump?

Uncle Joe

Jul 13, 2016

Dear Fr. Guarnizo,
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I have admired your courage in the face of adversity for years.
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I have one question. Which of the two candidates would you prefer making Supreme Court nominations (as many as 3 or 4 or perhaps even 5) knowing that those nominations would likely influence the policies of the United States for decades.
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Hillary?