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Ruini Commission: Medjugorje Seers Are Not Mature In Faith, One Is Notorious Liar

The journalist David Murgia, leaked excerpts of the thirty-page Medjugorje report of Cardinal Ruini’s commission which was launched 2010 (IlSegnoDiGiona.com, February 7).

The report claims “with reasonable certainty," that "the first seven apparitions" are "intrinsically credible,” calling the hypothesis of a demonic origin unfounded.

Its fallacious main argument is Medjugorje's “positive fruits.” The commission voted 13 to 1 that the phenomenon’s beginning wasn't attributable to manipulation or human dynamics alone "but had a supernatural origin.”

However, it noticed a "repetitive banality” of some of the Medjugorje messages, misses elements of transcendence [miracles], and advises that the "linguistic formulation" of the still ongoing messages should be overseen [and corrected?] by a priest.

The seers have “a relation, ambiguous in certain aspects, with money,” the report notices, and “do not, in fact, appear mature either in their faith or in their ecclesiality, and at certain times not even in their psychological consistency.”

About one seer, not named by Murgia, it observes that his "only work" are conferences on Medjugorje, that he has “lied multiple times,” and is less credible.

#newsMytimglchv

Ultraviolet
Thors Catholic Hammer conveniently chooses to forget it was Cardinal Ratzinger who overrode the negative opinions and decisions of the local ordinaries; handing over the investigation of the alleged Medjugorje messages and apparitions to others outside the diocese.

www.medjugorje-apologia.com

1986: Bishop Zanic submits a negative decision to Cardinal Ratzinger, then prefect of the Congrega…More
Thors Catholic Hammer conveniently chooses to forget it was Cardinal Ratzinger who overrode the negative opinions and decisions of the local ordinaries; handing over the investigation of the alleged Medjugorje messages and apparitions to others outside the diocese.

www.medjugorje-apologia.com

1986: Bishop Zanic submits a negative decision to Cardinal Ratzinger, then prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the faith. Instead of accepting the negative decision by the bishop, Cardinal Ratzinger dissolves the bishop's Commission, and convenes a new Commission of all the Yugoslavian Bishops in the region.

According to bishop Zanic, Cardinal Ratzinger told him forthright; "No, you are going to dissolve your diocesan commission. The verdict is transferred to the Bishops Conference."


But what else is new? The subject is irrelevant to Thor. All he cares about is another excuse to scream about "antipope Francis" again when he isn't obsessing over all the germs he's being infected with during Communion.

However I can only speak from experience of many years.

Or so you claim. The problem is, you like to invent "experience of many years" to prove whatever delusion you have is "truth".

Your Fallacy Is:
GChevalier
In order to get to know these false apparitions, demonic at the beginning and human inventions later on, it is absolutely necessary to read the book of Brother Michel of the Holy Trinity which is the most serious study I know on the subject. On the other hand, Father Laurentin is to be absolutely rejected.
Kevin
Good websites on Medjugorje here:-

www.marcocorvaglia.com/medjugorje-en (this site is excellent - particularly read www.marcocorvaglia.com/medjugorje-en/the-seers-and-a… Pts I and II and also www.marcocorvaglia.com/medjugorje-en/and-so-it-was-t… ) The site is also in Italian, here:- www.marcocorvaglia.com

medjugorjedocuments.blogspot.com (not been updated since 2014 but a mine …More
Good websites on Medjugorje here:-

www.marcocorvaglia.com/medjugorje-en (this site is excellent - particularly read www.marcocorvaglia.com/medjugorje-en/the-seers-and-a… Pts I and II and also www.marcocorvaglia.com/medjugorje-en/and-so-it-was-t… ) The site is also in Italian, here:- www.marcocorvaglia.com

medjugorjedocuments.blogspot.com (not been updated since 2014 but a mine of background information and factual documents)

Michael Davies' book 'Medjugorje After 21 Years' archive.org/…/Medjugorje Afte…
Fr Dan
Can you trust at all the claim of the first 7 apparitions, if the 'group' go on for years and years having dubious and questionable revelations and apparitions???
To me it throws the whole thing into question
Eric M
Believe me, Bergoglio's regime does not care for Truth in regard to "legitimacy" of these apparitions. It's all about the money. As long as they see the money pouring into Rome, they're in business...
Ultraviolet
"You seem happy to swallow your neighbors saliva that can be transferred..."

"Can be" is worlds apart from "actually is". That's a fundamental problem with your entire world-view, Thors Catholic Hammer . Things don't magically become facts simply because you say they are. That doesn't change just because you start squawking your beak non-stop, flying from post to post, and spattering …More
"You seem happy to swallow your neighbors saliva that can be transferred..."

"Can be" is worlds apart from "actually is". That's a fundamental problem with your entire world-view, Thors Catholic Hammer . Things don't magically become facts simply because you say they are. That doesn't change just because you start squawking your beak non-stop, flying from post to post, and spattering every comments section with the same droppings.

"You also seem happy to support an utter antiChrist of a man as pope whilst also supporting every attack on him."

Perfect example of my last point, coupled with your habitual refusal to acknowledge any fact that counters one of your pet delusions. I'll try again out of purely Christian charity.

I don't support Pope Francis. That's a fact. I also acknowledge and recognize the fact he is the Pope.

If I show support for criticism against Pope Francis, maybe that should give you some indication of my opinion of the man. That's assuming you're capable of reasoning like a normal human being. Judging by your comments on GTV, you aren't capable of that at all.

So I'd better spell it out for you, darling. I don't like Pope Francis. I don't like his agenda. I don't like his appointments. I don't like his plans for the Church. I don't like the fact he got elected Pope. There isn't any contradiction except the one you invented.

Now that I think of it, this is your latest rhetorical gimmick, isn't it? "durr hurr... u contradicted urself!"

That's all you ever do around here: you lie, you bear false witness against me, against others, including the Pope.

"and it is certainly not Catholicism of any degree."

Speaking of false witness, there you go again.... I am proud to be a Catholic. I am also just as disgusted and embarrassed that you claim to be one.

You desperately need to lose your idiotic, utterly insane idea that you are the sole arbiter of all that is or is not "Catholic", even extending to "errors" you alone perceive in the current Mass and how Communion "should" be administered.

Catholic or not, you're a nutter Thor.
Thors Catholic Hammer
@Ultraviolet.
You reject the truth that saliva is sometimes transferred between communicants receiving on the tongue when the priests fingers accidently touch a wet lip/tongue .
YOU REJECT THIS TRUTH.
[I myself have experienced this unpleasent truth when receiving on the tongue which is why I now prefer to receive in the hand in accordence with the practice instituted by Jesus at the Last …More
@Ultraviolet.
You reject the truth that saliva is sometimes transferred between communicants receiving on the tongue when the priests fingers accidently touch a wet lip/tongue .
YOU REJECT THIS TRUTH.
[I myself have experienced this unpleasent truth when receiving on the tongue which is why I now prefer to receive in the hand in accordence with the practice instituted by Jesus at the Last Supper].

COMMUNION ON THE TONGUE IS AN INNOVATION THAT DEPARTED FROM THE PRACTICE OF THE FIRST CHRISTIANS WHO RECEIVED IN THE HAND.

Finally your rejection of this incontrovertible truth I name above illustrates your dim grasp of all reality including the truth that Bergoglio is not a valid pope.
Ultraviolet
BOLD AND CAPS LOCK!!! Whoo boy, you really are off your rocker.

"You reject the truth that saliva is sometimes transferred between communicants receiving on the tongue..."

This is "truth"? Then is has been proven, true. Supply the proof your claim is true, then. ;-)

If what you are claiming is truth, supply scientific evidence.

Not your "say so". Not your "explanation". Not your ranting …More
BOLD AND CAPS LOCK!!! Whoo boy, you really are off your rocker.

"You reject the truth that saliva is sometimes transferred between communicants receiving on the tongue..."

This is "truth"? Then is has been proven, true. Supply the proof your claim is true, then. ;-)

If what you are claiming is truth, supply scientific evidence.

Not your "say so". Not your "explanation". Not your ranting with the caps-lock down and bolding the rant for good measure. ..and not the Irish Times, either, which is what's really fuelling your mania. This is whats' gotten your feathers rustled...

www.irishtimes.com/…/avoid-communion…

More importantly, prove that receiving communion on the tongue spreads disease. Cite scientific studies conducted.

Good luck with that. There are little if any studies on this subject. The rare few show that you're wrong. People can even drink from the same Communion cup without getting sick.

www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2005-jan…
mccallansteve
Medjugorje is not of God; It is of the devil
Thors Catholic Hammer
@Ultraviolet
You seem happy to swallow your neighbors saliva that can be transferred via the priests fingers when communion is given on the tongue.
Saliva contains germs .
You also seem happy to support an utter antiChrist of a man as pope whilst also supporting every attack on him.
Yes.
There is no doubt but that you are infected with something and it is certainly not Catholicism of any degree.
Novella Nurney
"Bishop Schneider refutes this notion in his most recent book, as well as in his previous one, titled Dominus Est, riflessioni di un vescovo dell’Asia Centrale sulla sacra comunione (“It’s the Lord: Reflections of a Bishop of Central Asia on Holy Communion”). It was the manuscript of this earlier book that he managed to deliver to Benedict XVI, with an accompanying letter imploring, “In the …More
"Bishop Schneider refutes this notion in his most recent book, as well as in his previous one, titled Dominus Est, riflessioni di un vescovo dell’Asia Centrale sulla sacra comunione (“It’s the Lord: Reflections of a Bishop of Central Asia on Holy Communion”). It was the manuscript of this earlier book that he managed to deliver to Benedict XVI, with an accompanying letter imploring, “In the name of Jesus Christ…see to it that when you administer Communion, all the faithful should receive It from your hands only on their knees and in their mouth. This would set an example for all.” To Bishop Schneider’s great surprise, five weeks later the nuncio in Kazakhstan gave him a sealed and confidential letter from the Vatican: it was the pope’s answer, which included this statement, in German: “Ihre Argumente sind überzeugend” (“Your arguments are convincing”). The author interpreted this reply as a green-light for the publication of his book, which was subsequently released by the LEV (Libreria Editrice Vaticana, the Vatican publishing house).

The book was published in early 2008. Pope Benedict XVI started to administer the Body of Our Lord directly on the tongue of the faithful on their knees with the celebration of the Feast of Corpus Christi in Rome on May 25, 2008."

Link www.catholicworldreport.com/…/benedict-xvi-bi…
Thors Catholic Hammer
@ @Novella Nurney
I can only tell my own experiences of receiving Holy Communion on the tongue over many years. Occasionally the priests fingers were wet from contact with tongue of a previous communicant. That wetness was transferred to my lower lip and tongue along with the Host.
These are facts of my own experience.
Other Catholics have also experienced this.
Therefore it can not be describe…More
@ @Novella Nurney
I can only tell my own experiences of receiving Holy Communion on the tongue over many years. Occasionally the priests fingers were wet from contact with tongue of a previous communicant. That wetness was transferred to my lower lip and tongue along with the Host.
These are facts of my own experience.
Other Catholics have also experienced this.
Therefore it can not be described as a hygienic method of distributing communion.
Distribution in the hand is more hygienic because saliva is not transmitted.
These are objective facts and arguments.
(In addition at the Last Supper Jesus distributed His Body by breaking the bread and placing it in the HAND of each disciple.)
Irishpol
Interesting, for the better part of 2000 years receiving Communion on the tongue was a way of life Catholics, and now it's a health issue? Are "modern" Catholics really so easily led away from Church teaching? Tragic.
Frà Alexis Bugnolo
The problem is not communion on the tounge, it is communion on the tounge while standing. The priest has to immediately decide where to place it on a moving target. That is why kneeling and an altar rail were used! -- And Thor, I am surprised at your fears, if the Lord wants to give us the penance of an illness, we better accept it. God knows we all have sins which still need the expiation of …More
The problem is not communion on the tounge, it is communion on the tounge while standing. The priest has to immediately decide where to place it on a moving target. That is why kneeling and an altar rail were used! -- And Thor, I am surprised at your fears, if the Lord wants to give us the penance of an illness, we better accept it. God knows we all have sins which still need the expiation of temporal punishment. And some of us need a good illness to see we need to make a good confession.
Thors Catholic Hammer
@
Frà Alexis Bugnolo
I admire your great work . Please keep it up.
However I can only speak from experience of many years.
I received communion on the tongue whilst kneeling at the altar rail and yes, sometimes ,not very often , the priests fingers would be moist or wet from contact with the tongue of another communicant who was also kneeling.
In those days everybody knelt and received on …More
@
Frà Alexis Bugnolo
I admire your great work . Please keep it up.
However I can only speak from experience of many years.
I received communion on the tongue whilst kneeling at the altar rail and yes, sometimes ,not very often , the priests fingers would be moist or wet from contact with the tongue of another communicant who was also kneeling.
In those days everybody knelt and received on the tongue only.

It is my honest practical belief that Jesus gave his disciples the bread at the last supper directly into the hand.
Communion on the tongue is a later innovation.

It is also my honest practical belief that communion in the hand rather than the tongue is a more hygienic method of distributing the Body of Christ.

I am not getting bogged down in this argument because this is not a critical issue and concerns EXTERNAL matters only.

GOD is not concerned with THE EXTERNAL MANNER of how people receive but in their INTERNAL SPIRITUAL DISPOSITION.

3 hours ago
Frà Alexis Bugnolo
@Thors Catholic Hammer I have found the greater issue is attending Mass in a heated Church which is not properly aired. The germs remain and you catch everything. Cold Churches are healthier. But I think we would become hypochondriacs if we worried to much about this. The proper approach is to take your priest aside and suggest he practice better. Also, instruct the faithful on how to open …More
@Thors Catholic Hammer I have found the greater issue is attending Mass in a heated Church which is not properly aired. The germs remain and you catch everything. Cold Churches are healthier. But I think we would become hypochondriacs if we worried to much about this. The proper approach is to take your priest aside and suggest he practice better. Also, instruct the faithful on how to open their mouths correctly. When I was a little boy, the pastor did this once a year at least, even when there was still a communion rail and kneeling.
Thors Catholic Hammer
@Irishpol
At the Last Supper Christ after instituting the Eucharist distributed the Hosts into the hand of each disciple.
Communion on the tongue is an innovation from early church practices.

10 hours ago
Marietta 427
Those apostles were newly-ordained priests at the Last Supper. Priests take and eat the Body and Blood of the Lord in their hands because their hands are consecrated. Lay people's hands are not consecrated, therefore it's advisable they receive on the tongue.
Ultraviolet
"Not Mature In Faith, One Is Notorious Liar" ...that seer posts on GTV, too. Francis ain't the real pope and communion on the tongue spreads germs! :D
Novella Nurney
Go figure. The hundreds of absurd scheduled " apparitions " repetitive, often heretical messages, numerous orthdox prelates and theologians screaming " stay away " and yet , still, thousands upon thousands of souls follow novelty in direct opposition to Holy Mother Church. Micheal Davies ( the Welshman) wrote an excellent set of articles on this topic. To add insult, I've been "damned to hell " (…More
Go figure. The hundreds of absurd scheduled " apparitions " repetitive, often heretical messages, numerous orthdox prelates and theologians screaming " stay away " and yet , still, thousands upon thousands of souls follow novelty in direct opposition to Holy Mother Church. Micheal Davies ( the Welshman) wrote an excellent set of articles on this topic. To add insult, I've been "damned to hell " ( even though no Catholic is EVER required to believe ANY private revelation for the salvation of thier soul, if it is not in the deposit of faith , it is private) by more Medjugorje followers than Saint's homilies. Lord have mercy!
Alex A
Stick to your 'guns Novella. My daughter carried out a journalistic investigation into the alleged claims of the Medjugorje 'seers' back in the eighties, she too found the whole story less than credible. Others should also be aware that the Local Ordinary Commission at that time, found nothing supernatural associated with the alleged apparitions. These findings were subsequently affirmed by each …More
Stick to your 'guns Novella. My daughter carried out a journalistic investigation into the alleged claims of the Medjugorje 'seers' back in the eighties, she too found the whole story less than credible. Others should also be aware that the Local Ordinary Commission at that time, found nothing supernatural associated with the alleged apparitions. These findings were subsequently affirmed by each proceeding Ordinary. One more point of note. The local Franciscans have always sided with the alleged 'seers' and have been prominent in the promotion of the 'authenticity' of the alleged apparitions, doing so long before the Commission concluded its findings. Their [franciscans] antipathy towards the local Ordinary is well documented, the genesis of which arose over a disputation of land ownership some years before the alleged Medjugorje apparitions and remains a 'sore' point of dispute on the part of the Franciscans today.
Thors Catholic Hammer
Antipope francis fully supports all the fraudsters and shysters exploiting and manipulating the religious beliefs of gullible catholics and others.