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Open Revolt in the Vatican?

The Vaticanista Marco Tosatti writes that “a cardinal of great renown, a former diplomat, with an important curriculum at the head of Congregations and important offices in the Secretariat of State”, reproached Francis for his reckless undermining of Catholic doctrine.

During a meeting with Francis the cardinal said in essence: “We elected you to make reforms, not to shatter everything.” According to Tosatti, the discussion became known because the two started raising their voices.

The prelate belongs to the cardinals who in 2013 voted for Bergoglio. A scan through the list of the participants in the 2013 conclave shows that the cardinal most likely involved in this incident is Leonardo Sandri, 74, the Prefect of the Congregation for the Oriental Churches.

Picture: Leonardo Sandri, #newsNuujpawibs
Dr Bobus
Rafferju. I realize it's something new for you. You just need to spend a few days (or weeks) thinking about it.
rafferju
Sorry but There is no logic in your reply.
Dr Bobus
No, God didn't get it wrong--you did.
I agree that the presumption of heaven is common now, which is a sin against the virtue of Hope. This is most manifest in funerals, mainly because Purgatory has been jettisoned. The purpose of a funeral mass has been forgotten. It is now considered a celebration of life rather than acts appealing for the salvation of the deceased because it includes both the …More
No, God didn't get it wrong--you did.

I agree that the presumption of heaven is common now, which is a sin against the virtue of Hope. This is most manifest in funerals, mainly because Purgatory has been jettisoned. The purpose of a funeral mass has been forgotten. It is now considered a celebration of life rather than acts appealing for the salvation of the deceased because it includes both the Divine Mercy and Justice.

IMHO, belief in Purgatory is the measure for the health of the Church.
rafferju
Dr Bobus, its the fact that most don't realise they are on the way to hell, the church has always taught about the fewness of the saved. in Ireland as I'm guessing is similar to a lot of places, focus is on God's mercy and everyone is going to heaven, which in turn leads to hell. our lady at Fatima showed the children hell. would you have preferred God told our Lady to show the kids purgatory, only …More
Dr Bobus, its the fact that most don't realise they are on the way to hell, the church has always taught about the fewness of the saved. in Ireland as I'm guessing is similar to a lot of places, focus is on God's mercy and everyone is going to heaven, which in turn leads to hell. our lady at Fatima showed the children hell. would you have preferred God told our Lady to show the kids purgatory, only? did God get it wrong in your opinion?
Dr Bobus
rafferju. I would prefer homilies on Purgatory, where the Divine mercy and justice are both present.
Dr Bobus
BrTom.Saying the Holy Spirit agreeto work with the pope is too general. Infallibility is a negative protection--against formally contradicting doctrine. Beyond that I know of nothing that guarantees the pope is guided by the HS. In fact, we have evidence to the contrary
rafferju
rafferju
brother Tom, I listened to some of your sermons there now, can you point me in the direction of one that mentions hell. Also a while back we had a disgraceful priest fr Flannigan cast doubt on the virginity of the BVM, can you point me to a sermon where you came to the defense of our mother the BVM, in the wake of this attack on our beloved mother, that made all the MSN in Ireland, which sows doubt …More
brother Tom, I listened to some of your sermons there now, can you point me in the direction of one that mentions hell. Also a while back we had a disgraceful priest fr Flannigan cast doubt on the virginity of the BVM, can you point me to a sermon where you came to the defense of our mother the BVM, in the wake of this attack on our beloved mother, that made all the MSN in Ireland, which sows doubt in the minds of the faithful in your parish and Ireland in general.
One more comment from rafferju
rafferju
BR tom
In Works of the Seraphic Father by R. Washbourne (1882) that bears the mark of an imprimatur, a prophecy by St. Francis is imparted to his spiritual children on his deathbed. I quote the relevant parts here:
Act bravely, my Brethren; take courage, and trust in the Lord. The time is fast approaching in which there will be great trials and afflictions; perplexities and dissensions, both …More
BR tom
In Works of the Seraphic Father by R. Washbourne (1882) that bears the mark of an imprimatur, a prophecy by St. Francis is imparted to his spiritual children on his deathbed. I quote the relevant parts here:
Act bravely, my Brethren; take courage, and trust in the Lord. The time is fast approaching in which there will be great trials and afflictions; perplexities and dissensions, both spiritual and temporal, will abound; the charity of many will grow cold, and the malice of the wicked will increase. The devils will have unusual power, the immaculate purity of our Order, and of others, will be so much obscured that there will be very few Christians who will obey the true Sovereign Pontiff and the Roman Catholic Church with loyal hearts and perfect charity. At the time of this tribulation a man, not canonically elected, will be raised to the Pontificate, who, by his cunning, will endeavour to draw many into error and death. Then scandals will be multiplied, our Order will be divided, and many others will be entirely destroyed, because they will consent to error instead of opposing it. There will be such diversity of opinions and schisms among the people, the religious and the clergy, that, except those days were shortened, according to the words of the Gospel, even the elect would be led into error, were they not specially guided, amid such great confusion, by the immense mercy of God… Those who preserve their fervour and adhere to virtue with love and zeal for the truth, will suffer injuries and persecutions as rebels and schismatics; for their persecutors, urged on by the evil spirits, will say they are rendering a real service to God by destroying such pestilent men from the face of the earth… Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor, but a destroyer.—Ibid. p.250
BrTomFordeOFMCap
Dr Bobus I agree with one proviso. The Cardinals elect the Pope and the Holy Spirit agrees to work with the man they pick, saint or sinner. The alternative is that the Holy Spirit has picked some right clangers over the course of the Church's history!
BrTomFordeOFMCap
rafferju When you quote St Francis please supply a reference! Many things are put on the Saint's lips. Please give us a source.
rafferju
according to st Francis there will be a pope elected uncanonically, that pope will certainly not have been an election inspired by the Holy Spirit. One of the hardest chastisements of God, here on earth is when he allows us to have the leaders we ask for.
Lightning never strikes twice but it did when the pope Benedict "resigned", every time humble pope francis released doves of peace there were …More
according to st Francis there will be a pope elected uncanonically, that pope will certainly not have been an election inspired by the Holy Spirit. One of the hardest chastisements of God, here on earth is when he allows us to have the leaders we ask for.
Lightning never strikes twice but it did when the pope Benedict "resigned", every time humble pope francis released doves of peace there were destroyed by doves. pope francis was born on the date that st faustina had her worst suffering, it felt like her to the suffering of Jesus in the garden. we all know this is when the apostles (his bishops) abandonded him and one of them kissed him while betraying him.
Rafał_Ovile
Tragedy in the making, they have put their reputaion at stake. Where is real mercy for the souls by admonishing the sinner?
Dr Bobus
The Holy Spirit does not elect the Pope--Cardinals do. Catholics hope they have been inspired by the Holy Spirit, but it is wrong to assume they are.