Pagliarani: Mass For Everyone - No Negotiations
The Society of PiusX fights for the Roman Mass not only for themselves but unconditionally for every priest and for the universal Church, Father Pagliarani explained (transcript of the English January …More
The Society of PiusX fights for the Roman Mass not only for themselves but unconditionally for every priest and for the universal Church, Father Pagliarani explained (transcript of the English January 15 talk in Paris on Traditiones Custodes below).
PiusX doesn't simply want to receive a little side altar or to become part of an amphitheatre where everything else is also permitted. Pagliarani doesn't ask for particular privileges because “this mass is a right for us and for all souls without exception.”
Therefore, PiusX doesn’t want to negotiate to obtain, little by little, some concessions so that they may be given a church here or a slot for Mass there, or may be allowed to use a maniple, a biretta or the Holy Week liturgy.
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PiusX doesn't simply want to receive a little side altar or to become part of an amphitheatre where everything else is also permitted. Pagliarani doesn't ask for particular privileges because “this mass is a right for us and for all souls without exception.”
Therefore, PiusX doesn’t want to negotiate to obtain, little by little, some concessions so that they may be given a church here or a slot for Mass there, or may be allowed to use a maniple, a biretta or the Holy Week liturgy.
#newsXwrzdpimuc
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Ultraviolet
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@Stronzo Santelli Obviously you don't know the difference between a sedevacantist and a schismatic. Yes, you really are THAT dumb. :P
Angelo Santelli
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Be careful, Father, otherwise poster ultradark will call you a sedevacantist. LOL
Ultraviolet
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@Mathathias Maccabeus Still, you have to admit it's kind of funny watching anyone make a fool out of themselves THIS badly, especially when they pretend they're a.) a Ph.D. and b.) a priest c.) even Catholic. :D
mccallansteve
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The traditional Mass is the birthright of every Catholic. Popes have tried but they have no authority to negate it. The Novus Ordo should be the birthright of protestants
Jan Joseph
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Pater Pagliarani van de SSPX is niet gecapituleerd voor de eisen van Paus Franciscus. Dit betekent dat het Schisma definitief is en de SSPX vrij is van Rome. In Duitsland is ook een Schisma gaande over de synodale kerk. Dit betekent dat er een Groot Schisma in de Rooms Katholieke kerk komt. Paus Franciscus is hiervoor verantwoordelijk en zal daardoor snel moeten aftreden. Eind 2022 hebben de …More
Pater Pagliarani van de SSPX is niet gecapituleerd voor de eisen van Paus Franciscus. Dit betekent dat het Schisma definitief is en de SSPX vrij is van Rome. In Duitsland is ook een Schisma gaande over de synodale kerk. Dit betekent dat er een Groot Schisma in de Rooms Katholieke kerk komt. Paus Franciscus is hiervoor verantwoordelijk en zal daardoor snel moeten aftreden. Eind 2022 hebben de Traditionele Rooms Katholieken een nieuwe Paus.
Jan Joseph
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Geweldig. Duidelijk taal van pater Pagliarani. Alle Rooms Katholieke gelovigen hebben het recht om de Tridentijnse of Romeinse Heilige Mis bij te wonen en te vieren. Iedere priester of bisschop die hieraan niet wil meewerken moet in de lekenstand teruggezet worden. Het vervolgen van de Tridentijnse of Romeinse Rooms Katholieken, zoals nu vaak plaatsvindt, is in strijdt met de rechten van de mens.
Rand Miller
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The same old line from the SSPX.
Better to be Wrong with the Pope - or Right with Tradition against Him? Response to the SSPX
Better to be Wrong with the Pope - or Right with Tradition against Him? Response to the SSPX
Kenjiro M. Yoshimori
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Better to be right with tradition in union with the SSPX, rather than be wrong with a heretic Pope and Vatican who promote a protestantized liturgy and allow for and even promote (as example the Zanchetta case), active and practicing and abusing homosexuals.
Ultraviolet
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Protip: The Pope ins't a "heretic" according to The Church's definition of the term. You're almost as bad as Jimmy. :P
In reality they are de facto the Churches leadership! Someone has to step up!
Kenjiro M. Yoshimori
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Correct. The SSPX represents true Catholic teaching and leadership. Francis and company are heretics. Francis doesn't even have the spine to blame Russia for the invasion of Ukraine. The Russian Orthodox Church is garbage, and yet Francis is in love with the idea of meeting with them.
@michael newman Quisling.
chris griffin
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The Orthodox believe in divorce, they can't be a true church.
Ultraviolet
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@chris griffin they're schismatics... so by definition they're in error.
@michael newman Re: 2.) Ultimately it is and yes, the Russians are invading the Ukraine, not the reverse.
@michael newman Re: 2.) Ultimately it is and yes, the Russians are invading the Ukraine, not the reverse.
Ultraviolet
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You don't fight for the Catholic Mass by leaving the Catholic Church and separating yourself from The Church's leadership.
Kenjiro M. Yoshimori
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The Church's leadership is SSPX, not the false Pope Francis and his Vatican filled with homosexuals like Zanchetta. For every 1 Zanchetta, there are probably 3 more hinding out in some office in the Vatican of Pope Francis. They started infiltrating under Paul VI and JPII. Benedict XVI tried removing them and paid the price....but they're back tripple strength under Francis.
Ultraviolet
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Don't be rediculous. The SSPX are schismatics and not even in communion with The Church. All that radiation from Fukushima really put the zap on your brains.
Ultraviolet
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You know me too well.. ;-)
The excommunication was against individuals, not the organization. ;-) Also, Pope Francis explicitly contradicts the notion that they are "in communion" with The Church in his Apostolic Letter "Misericordia et Miseria". In it, Pope Francis extends the faculties granted to the SSPX by Benedict XVI. Francis does so, "trusting in the good will of their priests to strive …More
You know me too well.. ;-)
The excommunication was against individuals, not the organization. ;-) Also, Pope Francis explicitly contradicts the notion that they are "in communion" with The Church in his Apostolic Letter "Misericordia et Miseria". In it, Pope Francis extends the faculties granted to the SSPX by Benedict XVI. Francis does so, "trusting in the good will of their priests to strive with God’s help for the recovery of full communion in the Catholic Church,"
Since the SSPX priests must strive "for the recovery of full communion in the Catholic Church",(his exact words) then by definition, they don't have full communion now. The SSPX and their cheer-leaders on GTV would have everyone believe otherwise, yet this is the latest and most recent official statement from The Pope as the head of The Church.
The excommunication was against individuals, not the organization. ;-) Also, Pope Francis explicitly contradicts the notion that they are "in communion" with The Church in his Apostolic Letter "Misericordia et Miseria". In it, Pope Francis extends the faculties granted to the SSPX by Benedict XVI. Francis does so, "trusting in the good will of their priests to strive with God’s help for the recovery of full communion in the Catholic Church,"
Since the SSPX priests must strive "for the recovery of full communion in the Catholic Church",(his exact words) then by definition, they don't have full communion now. The SSPX and their cheer-leaders on GTV would have everyone believe otherwise, yet this is the latest and most recent official statement from The Pope as the head of The Church.
2 more comments from Ultraviolet
Ultraviolet
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You don't have to wait @michael newman You just made one yourself. Losers and schismatics love calling me a "troll" when I debunk their false claims. You're no different at least you're not pretending anymore that you're above "running battles".
You started this one nineteen days after the discussion had concluded. Surprise, surprise there's an SSPX fan-boy under that gold mask. That's why you're …More
You don't have to wait @michael newman You just made one yourself. Losers and schismatics love calling me a "troll" when I debunk their false claims. You're no different at least you're not pretending anymore that you're above "running battles".
You started this one nineteen days after the discussion had concluded. Surprise, surprise there's an SSPX fan-boy under that gold mask. That's why you're so hell-bent to get me banned. ;-)
"If their shepherds are excommunicants then de facto the organisation is condemned."
In point of fact, that happened. JP II formally called Lefebvre's movement "the schism" in Ecclesia Dei. That wasn't rescinded with the excommunications, either.
"If they are schismatics this would not be permissible."
Wrong. That's standard SSPX false apologetics. Canon Law says differently
Also, from Canon 1040: "An irregularity is a perpetual impediment even though a dispensation may be granted in some cases..."
Thus schismatics may minister if a dispensation is given. They still remain schismatics, though.
Canon 1047 §1. "Dispensation from all irregularities is reserved to the Apostolic See alone..."
....and that's what happened here. Pope Francis granted a dispensation for the schismatic priests of the SSPX.
That doesn't change the fact the SSPX ARE schismatics. Pope Francis has granted them limited faculties and only for the pastoral benefit of Catholic laity.
Let's revisit your claim:
"The Holy Father Francis has granted them a Canonical privilege to grant two sacraments to the laity.... If they are schismatics this would not be permissible."
As I've shown, that IS permissible. Protip: Catholic priests don't need privileges granted by Pope to celebrate Catholic sacraments. If the SSPX were Catholic, this would not be needed. ;-)
You started this one nineteen days after the discussion had concluded. Surprise, surprise there's an SSPX fan-boy under that gold mask. That's why you're so hell-bent to get me banned. ;-)
"If their shepherds are excommunicants then de facto the organisation is condemned."
In point of fact, that happened. JP II formally called Lefebvre's movement "the schism" in Ecclesia Dei. That wasn't rescinded with the excommunications, either.
"If they are schismatics this would not be permissible."
Wrong. That's standard SSPX false apologetics. Canon Law says differently
Also, from Canon 1040: "An irregularity is a perpetual impediment even though a dispensation may be granted in some cases..."
Thus schismatics may minister if a dispensation is given. They still remain schismatics, though.
Canon 1047 §1. "Dispensation from all irregularities is reserved to the Apostolic See alone..."
....and that's what happened here. Pope Francis granted a dispensation for the schismatic priests of the SSPX.
That doesn't change the fact the SSPX ARE schismatics. Pope Francis has granted them limited faculties and only for the pastoral benefit of Catholic laity.
Let's revisit your claim:
"The Holy Father Francis has granted them a Canonical privilege to grant two sacraments to the laity.... If they are schismatics this would not be permissible."
As I've shown, that IS permissible. Protip: Catholic priests don't need privileges granted by Pope to celebrate Catholic sacraments. If the SSPX were Catholic, this would not be needed. ;-)
Ultraviolet
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Yeah, your SSPX hypocrisy IS that, if nothing else. You run your mouth, ad hominem city, so I reply with facts disproving your manure. Now you simply sneer and act like just the sort of "troll" you oh-so-piously decry here on GTV. Stay classy, Lefebvrist.