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Local Bishop: Garabandal? Niet

Bishop Manuel Sánchez Monge of Santander, Spain, has reiterated his rejection of the alleged Marian apparitions of Garabandal (1961-1965), reports AciPrensa.com (19 October).

His position "is like that of my predecessors, that Rome's assessment remains valid: 'There is no evidence of supernaturalism.'"

The background to the statement were Garabanadal supporters who had planned an event at the San Pablo Center of University Studies (CEU). However, "for reasons beyond the control of the organisers", it was held in the restaurant of a sports club near Madrid.

Sánchez allegedly called Madrid Cardinal Carlos Osoro to put pressure on the CEU, but Osoro denied any involvement in the case. In contrast, Sánchez admitted to having told the CEU that he was "not pleased" not to have been consulted before authorising the gathering.

Picture: Garabandal © Lourdes Cardenal, CC BY-SA, #newsSpjnexkcev
Credo .
@Live Mike @ Sancte Teotonio. > It doesn't matter how many SSPX, ICKSP, & FSSP Priests you met in Garabandal Live Mike; It doesn't prove them right!
Sancte Teotónio
Unfortunately, even priests can be deceived, if they are not careful, how much more deceived can be the laity. Most likely they don't have full information and only got the devotion propaganda.
Sancte Teotónio
Just stick with Fátima, La Sallete, Lourdes and other approved Marian apparitions by the Church.
We have to follow the Church and not pick and choose our favourites, because if we follow Church teaching we are safe, if we start to listen to gurus and apparition charlatans, in the best case scenario we waste time and money, at worst we enter in a species of gnosticism with secrets, and the "she said …More
Just stick with Fátima, La Sallete, Lourdes and other approved Marian apparitions by the Church.

We have to follow the Church and not pick and choose our favourites, because if we follow Church teaching we are safe, if we start to listen to gurus and apparition charlatans, in the best case scenario we waste time and money, at worst we enter in a species of gnosticism with secrets, and the "she said, he said" and end up putting faith in false things and signs, which at start might make us fell good, but in the end would alter our faith just enough to lose it altogether. It happens a lot the followers of the other cult of Medjugorie.

It just takes people's money and time instead of focusing in praying the real devotions and studying doctrine, and when find out of the deception they lose the faith.

@Just me and @Live Mike you have no right whatsoever to spread non-approved alleged apparitions. If you don't believe me, go find a traditional priest and ask him. But Pls for the sake of the Church of Jesus Christ, and the sake of your own souls, i hope you gain conscience of what you are doing and repent.
Live Mike
@Sancte Teotónio Do you know how many tradition Catholic priests from the SSPX, ICKSP, and FSSP I meet in San Sebastián de Garabandal each year? It would make your head spin. One reason why those holy priests believe in Garabandal is because Our Lady's Messages warned of the problems within the visible institution of the Catholic Church. For example:
"Many cardinals, many bishops, and many priests …More
@Sancte Teotónio Do you know how many tradition Catholic priests from the SSPX, ICKSP, and FSSP I meet in San Sebastián de Garabandal each year? It would make your head spin. One reason why those holy priests believe in Garabandal is because Our Lady's Messages warned of the problems within the visible institution of the Catholic Church. For example:
"Many cardinals, many bishops, and many priests are on the road to perdition and are taking many souls with them. Less and less importance is being given to the Eucharist."

"Affairs were going to go very bad for the Church, that the Eucharist would constantly be given less importance, that many priests would become worse and worse, and that wickedness would spread everywhere."

"When the Church suffers confusion, the people are going to suffer too. Some priests who are communists will create such confusion that people will not know right from wrong."

Our Lady of Garabandal urged "Prayer for Priests" almost every time She appeared (and that was over 2000 times).
Live Mike
@Sancte Teotónio Yes, I agree with you -- Our Lady of Fátima & La Salette are of paramount importance. I'd like to add three more to your list. Our Lady of Good Success, Quito, Ecuador (Approved), The Virgin of Revelation, Tre Fontane, Italy (Approved by the Vicariate of Rome), and Our Lady of Akita, Japan (Approved).
LiveJohn
Promotion of multiple apparitions only serve to confuse the issue. Current events taking place in the Church are inextricably bound to the Holy Virgins 'Messages for the World' delivered exclusively via the Garabandal visionaries and no one else. The relevance of those Messages apply to a particular period, (Apostasy) now before our eyes and are further proof of the authenticity of the Virgins …More
Promotion of multiple apparitions only serve to confuse the issue. Current events taking place in the Church are inextricably bound to the Holy Virgins 'Messages for the World' delivered exclusively via the Garabandal visionaries and no one else. The relevance of those Messages apply to a particular period, (Apostasy) now before our eyes and are further proof of the authenticity of the Virgins appearances in Spain. The truth of those Messages are self evident to those open to them. Doubters will always seek assurances elsewhere and thereby serve to distract attention from what really matters at this critical period in our salvation history.
Sharon R Houghton
Hold on! Can I just say as an american.. I had no intention of going to Garabandal Spain. I could have been "CALLED" to Medjugore- that seems to be the easiest and most reassuring place on the planet for those looking for spiritual awakeing or closeness to GOD. However, In my case thats not the story. I was tapped on the shoulder By our Blessed Mother herself on May 13 ,22 and told to go to Garabandal …More
Hold on! Can I just say as an american.. I had no intention of going to Garabandal Spain. I could have been "CALLED" to Medjugore- that seems to be the easiest and most reassuring place on the planet for those looking for spiritual awakeing or closeness to GOD. However, In my case thats not the story. I was tapped on the shoulder By our Blessed Mother herself on May 13 ,22 and told to go to Garabandal. Ok, ok call me whatever, but I have and continue to have over 100 people of all denominations saying the rosary once a month. I also have had a spiritual director for 4 years by the Catholic Church. OH! and yes I have been tested by priest, lay and etc. Only to be proven correct. Garabandal is a story- a story not to be forgotten. The Children witnessed what was to come. Just like Fatima, Akita and Medjugore. So its easy to say promotion of mulitiple apparitions only serve to confuse the issue. Our Holy Mother is trying to desperately get the message out. Garabandal is amazing... not to be taken lightly.
LiveJohn
@Sharon R Houghton. Hi Sharon, I concur with your concluding sentence. The subject matter under discussion relates to Garabandal. Mixing it with multiple apparitions is off-topic. Your efforts to promote prayer and the Holy Rosary are highly commendable and in no way detract from the Holy Virgins Messages.
Pax Vobiscum.
Live Mike
@Sancte Teotónio Can you name a single book title that you have read on the subject of Garabandal? [These people who speak as though they were an authority on the subject of Garabandal puzzle me.]
Sancte Teotónio
Saint John of the Cross is not a authority enough for you? He is the gold standard on how to judge visions, locutions and inspirations of the soul.
I am a layman ofc. The things i say are based of my research and of talks and videos by traditional priests who analyzed Garabandal in accord to church teaching.
The simple fact that it is not approved by the church is enough to dismiss it. But people …More
Saint John of the Cross is not a authority enough for you? He is the gold standard on how to judge visions, locutions and inspirations of the soul.

I am a layman ofc. The things i say are based of my research and of talks and videos by traditional priests who analyzed Garabandal in accord to church teaching.

The simple fact that it is not approved by the church is enough to dismiss it. But people today don't care about church authority if it goes against what they "believe and feel"
Live Mike
So, your answer to my question is, "I have not personally read a single book title on the subject of Garabandal." Okay... thanks
Sancte Teotónio
What book of Garabandal has an imprimatur by a Bishop? Tell me one, i will wait.
And i've read the story of the Apparitions of Garabandal.
Now the difference is that i've studied both sides and other fake apparitions. Once you do that, you start to see a pattern between them.
One other tell that makes the apparition look bad is that they clinged to Vat II in order to be viewed as good, like supporting …More
What book of Garabandal has an imprimatur by a Bishop? Tell me one, i will wait.

And i've read the story of the Apparitions of Garabandal.
Now the difference is that i've studied both sides and other fake apparitions. Once you do that, you start to see a pattern between them.

One other tell that makes the apparition look bad is that they clinged to Vat II in order to be viewed as good, like supporting ecumenism, the new mass, religious liberty, etc., but not even by following the errors of Vat II, they are approved.

And believe me they would have much to gain €€€ by approving them, but even the modernist church can't ignore the inconsistencies.
Live Mike
"I give this video 'Garabandal' the IMPRIMATUR and NIHIL OBSTAT And I give my blessing to this apostolate to make the message of Our Lady of Garabandal known to the world." Bishop Roman Danylak, Titular Bishop of Nyssa, Apostolic Administrator of Toronto (Ukrainian), Rome, Italy, 24 January 2000
Garabandal Warning, Our Ladys messages and prophecies - full video
Live Mike
Our Lady of Garabandal, contrary to what you may have read or heard, NEVER ONCE approved of Vatican II... NEVER !!!
One more comment from Live Mike
Live Mike
@Sancte Teotónio You've read "the story of the Apparitions of Garabandal" who's the author of that work and what year was it published? I'm not familiar with that particular title.
Yes, like you I've studied both sides, but have come to a different conclusion. After painstakingly reading from most of the critics I discovered how many lies, misconceptions and errors were being presented as facts.…More
@Sancte Teotónio You've read "the story of the Apparitions of Garabandal" who's the author of that work and what year was it published? I'm not familiar with that particular title.
Yes, like you I've studied both sides, but have come to a different conclusion. After painstakingly reading from most of the critics I discovered how many lies, misconceptions and errors were being presented as facts. It saddens me how many good Catholics have been deceived by those who haven't really studied.
Sancte Teotónio shares this
16464
The supposed letter of Padre Pio supporting Garabandal is fake. As many of fake letters that supposedly were from Padre Pio that supported other fake apparitions arround Europe, for example: the apparitions of Heroldsbach.
Its hard to believe that Padre Pio would not follow the authority of the local Bishop that forbid the apparitions.More
The supposed letter of Padre Pio supporting Garabandal is fake. As many of fake letters that supposedly were from Padre Pio that supported other fake apparitions arround Europe, for example: the apparitions of Heroldsbach.

Its hard to believe that Padre Pio would not follow the authority of the local Bishop that forbid the apparitions.
Live Mike
The recent comment by the Bishop of Santander had NOTHING to do with the Letter of Padre Pio to the girls of Garabandal... Nothing whatsoever! The Bishop merely repeated the official position of his predecessors. There is little circumstantial evidence to prove that the Letter of Padre Pio was fake. But there is also circumstantial evidence to prove that the Letter of Padre Pio was genuinely authentic …More
The recent comment by the Bishop of Santander had NOTHING to do with the Letter of Padre Pio to the girls of Garabandal... Nothing whatsoever! The Bishop merely repeated the official position of his predecessors. There is little circumstantial evidence to prove that the Letter of Padre Pio was fake. But there is also circumstantial evidence to prove that the Letter of Padre Pio was genuinely authentic. So believe what you will.
Sancte Teotónio
Funny how even the novus ordo bishops don't approve the apparition and public cult and the followers keep disobeying the authority of the Church.
Its fake like the other letters of "Padre Pio" sent to other fake apparitions. it's the same Modus operandi.
Even if they were true, Padre Pio as holy as he was, he had no authority to say anything contrary to the bishop order and no authority to approve …More
Funny how even the novus ordo bishops don't approve the apparition and public cult and the followers keep disobeying the authority of the Church.

Its fake like the other letters of "Padre Pio" sent to other fake apparitions. it's the same Modus operandi.

Even if they were true, Padre Pio as holy as he was, he had no authority to say anything contrary to the bishop order and no authority to approve any apparition whatsoever. Even admitting that he would had something to say, he would write to the Bishop and not the alleged visionaires, for the same reason of not usurping the Bishop's authority.
Sancte Teotónio
Here is the supposed letter. It's not even in handwriting. Completely fakeable!
The "apparitions" of Heroldsbach in Switzerland also received a similar letter from Padre Pio.
Those apparitions in the 50s where condemned and anyone who participated in them couldn't receive Holy Communion until they repented. Eventually the "seers" also girls, admited they were lying and doing tricks.More
Here is the supposed letter. It's not even in handwriting. Completely fakeable!

The "apparitions" of Heroldsbach in Switzerland also received a similar letter from Padre Pio.
Those apparitions in the 50s where condemned and anyone who participated in them couldn't receive Holy Communion until they repented. Eventually the "seers" also girls, admited they were lying and doing tricks.
One more comment from Sancte Teotónio
Sancte Teotónio
Unless we want to take Padre Pio by a gullible follower of charlatans who also got deceived, the other option is that the letters were falsified by a copy-cat who used the same scheme to go arround deceiving people using the fame of Padre Pio.
Live Mike
@Sancte Teotónio Funnier still how the same "novus ordo bishops" who buried the 3rd Secret of Fatima and silenced Sister Lucia of Fatima in 1960, treated Garabandal in a similar fashion after Our Lady came to give that same Message again in a brief updated form in 1961 after Her 1960 deadline for the opening & publication of the 3rd Secret had not been fulfilled.
Garabandal is as real as the nose …More
@Sancte Teotónio Funnier still how the same "novus ordo bishops" who buried the 3rd Secret of Fatima and silenced Sister Lucia of Fatima in 1960, treated Garabandal in a similar fashion after Our Lady came to give that same Message again in a brief updated form in 1961 after Her 1960 deadline for the opening & publication of the 3rd Secret had not been fulfilled.
Garabandal is as real as the nose on your face.
Live Mike
Is the Italian Postmark on the Convento dei Cappuccini, San Giovanni Rotonda letterhead stationary envelope completely fake-able?
2 more comments from Live Mike
Live Mike
On 8 July 1966, Archbishop Manuel Pío López Estrada of Veracruz, México officially wrote this to Fr. Gustavo Morelos:
"One of the Officials of the Sacred Congregation for the Defense of the Faith, Msgr. Philippe, who was consulted in Rome by the Very Rev. P. Elias, Superior of the Carmel of the City of Puebla, on the subject of the apparitions of the Most Blessed Virgin at Garabandal, stated …More
On 8 July 1966, Archbishop Manuel Pío López Estrada of Veracruz, México officially wrote this to Fr. Gustavo Morelos:

"One of the Officials of the Sacred Congregation for the Defense of the Faith, Msgr. Philippe, who was consulted in Rome by the Very Rev. P. Elias, Superior of the Carmel of the City of Puebla, on the subject of the apparitions of the Most Blessed Virgin at Garabandal, stated that the fact that Padre Pio -- well known for his virtue, his knowledge and his faithfulness to the Holy See -- acknowledged these apparitions, and encouraged the 4 Visionaries to spread the Message of the Most Blessed Virgin, was great proof of the authenticity of these apparitions."

Note: Archbishop Pierre Charles (Paul) Philippe, O.P. [later Cardinal Philippe] served as Secretary of the Congregation for Religious and Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

Photos: Archbishop Manuel Pío López Estrada (left) and the Archbishop's original letter (right)
Live Mike
Padre Pio affirmed Garabandal to a Ph.D in confession.
Joachim Bouflet, Ph.D. went to Padre Pio for confession in July of 1968 [2 months before his death on 23 September 1968]. Padre Pio told him "Pray to the Madonna. Consecrate yourself to the Virgin of Carmel." "Yes, Padre, I pray to Our Lady of Mount Carmel. For that matter, I would like to become a Carmelite." He didn't comment on this but …More
Padre Pio affirmed Garabandal to a Ph.D in confession.
Joachim Bouflet, Ph.D. went to Padre Pio for confession in July of 1968 [2 months before his death on 23 September 1968]. Padre Pio told him "Pray to the Madonna. Consecrate yourself to the Virgin of Carmel." "Yes, Padre, I pray to Our Lady of Mount Carmel. For that matter, I would like to become a Carmelite." He didn't comment on this but repeated with insistence, "Consecrate yourself to the Virgin of Carmel who appeared at Garabandal."
Bouflet:"So it's true?"
Padre Pio: "Certo e vero!" ("Yes, it's true!")

From the book “Our Lady comes to Garabandal” by Fr. Pelletier on page 219
“While he was living, the same Padre Pio guaranteed the authenticity of the apparitions of the Blessed Virgin. He met Conchita at San Giovanni Rotondo. Even during the last days of his life he talked about this to his brothers in religious life and left a personal message for the principle personage of the apparitions.”

From the book “The Final Hour” by Michael Harold Brown on page 141
On the topic of Padre Pio’s belief in Garabandal:
“Asked on another occasion about its authenticity, he answered curtly,”
“How many times must she appear there to be believed?”

From the book “Thunder of Justice” by Ted and Maureen Flynn on page 163: An incident which confirms Padre Pio’s belief in Garabandal occurred early in 1966. Conchita, who was only 16 years old, was visiting Rome with her mother and Fr. Luna. She had been invited by Cardinal Ottaviani, Prefect of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith. During the visit, Conchita met privately with Padre Pio. On this occasion, he took Conchita’s hand and her crucifix that Our Lady had kissed in Garabandal and held them both in his own two hands. The crucifix had passed through the hands of the Child Jesus, during the Apparition of November 13, 1965.

“He [Padre Pio] saw the Miracle before he died. He [Padre Pio] told me himself.” - Padre Bernardino Cennamo, OFM Cap.
Padre Cennamo acknowledged that he did not believe in Garabandal at the beginning, but shared with Conchita that when Padre Pio asked him to give her the veil that covered his face after his death, he changed his views. At Lourdes, on that day, “the veil and the letter were delivered to Conchita.” But something else interested her more. And so she immediately asked Padre Cennamo: “Why did the Virgin tell me that Padre Pio would see the Miracle and he has died?” To which the Capuchin responded: “He saw the miracle before he died. He told me himself.” That being so, then the saint of the stigmata has entered into a close circle of Garabandal protagonists who, just before their death, have seen the big announced Miracle. It links Padre Pio to Garabandal in a much deeper way than having a spiritual interest in its message, having supernaturally seen the Miracle, something not even the seers have experienced.

Luigina Sinapi de Tre Fontane, Italia and Conchita de Garabandal
Garabandal, Padre Pio and the Servant of God !
MORE ON THE PADRE PIO’S LETTER SENT TO GARABANDAL
MORE ON THE PADRE PIO’S LETTER SENT TO GARABANDAL
THE ORIGINAL LETTER OF PADRE PIO TO THE SEERS OF GARABANDAL
THE ORIGINAL LETTER OF PADRE PIO TO THE SEERS OF GARABANDAL
Sancte Teotónio
Some clergy in the 60s were modernist and communist infiltrators and they buried the secret of Fatima and Sister Lucia, but not all clergy were like that at the time and that doesn't mean that Garanbandal was true. It's still fake and condemned by the church.
The Bishop could had giving disapproval for a time to see the reaction of the seers or the sign of obedience, but the fact that it was never …More
Some clergy in the 60s were modernist and communist infiltrators and they buried the secret of Fatima and Sister Lucia, but not all clergy were like that at the time and that doesn't mean that Garanbandal was true. It's still fake and condemned by the church.

The Bishop could had giving disapproval for a time to see the reaction of the seers or the sign of obedience, but the fact that it was never lifted until today is a sign that it was not real or inspired.

- The stamp on the letter can be falsified. They could had also obtained stamped envelopes with no address.

- That bishop saying that the letter from Padre Pio (which is fake like others) "was great proof of the authenticity of these apparitions." , just shows that bishop was somehow ignorant of Church process to approve apparitions. Also like i said before, Padre Pio, as holy as he was, he wouldn't go against the local Bishop authority, nor was his place to approve or disapprove of alleged apparitions.
Live Mike
Was Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani a modernist communist infiltrator too?
In 1975 Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani, former Head of the Holy Office and Head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, stated that “he believed in the supernatural character of Garabandal.” Cardinal Ottaviani also said, “We must pray a great deal, so that the Church may acknowledge Garabandal.” - Jacques Serre and …More
Was Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani a modernist communist infiltrator too?
In 1975 Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani, former Head of the Holy Office and Head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, stated that “he believed in the supernatural character of Garabandal.” Cardinal Ottaviani also said, “We must pray a great deal, so that the Church may acknowledge Garabandal.” - Jacques Serre and Béatrice Caux, Garabandal: Apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary, p. 234
⦁ Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani is the same man who personally spoke with Sister Lucia of Fatima in May 1955, who read the Third Secret of Fatima, who spoke with Conchita Gonzalez of Garabandal in January 1966 at the Vatican, who wrote the Circular Letter to the Presidents of Episcopal Conferences regarding some sentences and errors arising from the interpretation of the decrees of the Second Vatican Council on 24 July 1966, and who wrote a critique of the Novus Ordo Missae known as "The Ottaviani Intervention" on 25 September 1969. See also Internet History Sourcebooks
Carol H
Just like to weigh in here - this typed letter was sent at a time when Padre Pio was sanctioned. Common sense tells us that he would not have disobeyed his superiors. Nor would he have pre-empted Rome's decision on the matter. How do we explain the envelope bearing 'Convento dei Cappuccini, San Giovanni Rotonda'? Easy. it was posted from 'Convento dei Cappuccini, San Giovanni Rotonda'. Does this …More
Just like to weigh in here - this typed letter was sent at a time when Padre Pio was sanctioned. Common sense tells us that he would not have disobeyed his superiors. Nor would he have pre-empted Rome's decision on the matter. How do we explain the envelope bearing 'Convento dei Cappuccini, San Giovanni Rotonda'? Easy. it was posted from 'Convento dei Cappuccini, San Giovanni Rotonda'. Does this prove it was from Padre Pio? No. It simply proves it was posted from there. It could have been posted as a joke - as a means to cause trouble - or simply from some overzealous and dillusional soul who was using the monastry - and Garabandal - to validate their own "visions". Who knows. As for Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani - love him - but from what official source do Jacques Serre and Béatrice Caux get their claim from? There's an awful lot of hearsay and chinese whisphers being bandied about.
LiveJohn
@Carol H Agree entirely with your concluding sentence 😊
Live Mike
Why the genuinely authentic letter of Padre Pio to the girls of Garabandal was never signed and why his words were not handwritten but instead typed by another party?
Padre Pio was ordered by his superiors in 1924 not to write to anyone, an order which he obeyed to the day he died. BUT REMEMBER... PADRE PIO WAS NEVER FORBIDDEN THE ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE WITH OTHERS. “Letters supposed to have been …More
Why the genuinely authentic letter of Padre Pio to the girls of Garabandal was never signed and why his words were not handwritten but instead typed by another party?
Padre Pio was ordered by his superiors in 1924 not to write to anyone, an order which he obeyed to the day he died. BUT REMEMBER... PADRE PIO WAS NEVER FORBIDDEN THE ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE WITH OTHERS. “Letters supposed to have been written by him after 1924 are automatically spurious by the very fact that Padre Pio scrupulously and reverently obeyed his superiors who forbade him to write after that year.” - Rev. Fr. Charles Mortimer Carty, “Padre Pio: The Stigmatist”, TAN, 1973, p. 28

Yes, Padre Pio maintained his obedience by never actually typing or physically writing that letter.
Another person did that job for him... consequently, strictly speaking and in accordance with his directives, Padre Pio was morally & legally obedient to his superiors. He never did write the letter as someone else did it for him.
REMEMBER... PADRE PIO WAS NEVER FORBIDDEN THE ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE WITH OTHERS.

The very fact that letter was typed is the greatest proof that positively confirms "the Padre Pio Letter to the girls of Garabandal" is genuinely authentic.

Padre Pio’s Persecution by Church Authorities and his Response
"The Vatican initially imposed severe sanctions on Padre Pio in the 1920s to reduce publicity about him: it forbade him from saying Mass in public, blessing people, answering letters, showing his stigmata publicly, and communicating with [an individual] Padre Benedetto, his spiritual director."
Padre Pio’s Persecution by Church Authorities and his Response – St. John The Baptist
Sancte Teotónio
Ahahahaha 😂 😂 😂
Isn't that convenient!!?? So even if he dictated the letter, he wasn't the author, he just used others to write for him.
I'm sorry but i literally laughed at the stupidity of that argument.
St Thomas Aquinas also dictate whole books to his secretary, that means St Thomas didn't "write" those books.??
If that's the case, then the author isn't Padre Pio but his secretary. Which …More
Ahahahaha 😂 😂 😂
Isn't that convenient!!?? So even if he dictated the letter, he wasn't the author, he just used others to write for him.

I'm sorry but i literally laughed at the stupidity of that argument.

St Thomas Aquinas also dictate whole books to his secretary, that means St Thomas didn't "write" those books.??

If that's the case, then the author isn't Padre Pio but his secretary. Which leaves you in a logical impossibility, that you are saying that it is from Padre Pio, which he was forbidden to do as you said, or isn't from Padre Pio after all, but the secretary is the author.

That argument adds nothing, because it doesn't matter if he wrote or dictate the letter if he is really the author.

Also it could had been dictated by Padre Pio and handwritten by the secretary, that doesn't answer the fact that those letters were sent to false apparitions, disobeying the church and local Bishops rulings on the matter.
Live Mike
But it does matter. Had Padre Pio physically written marks on paper and or simply affixed his signature, he would have been in violation of the orders from his superiors. Something he never did in our case. Fortunately for us, Padre Pio was NEVER forbidden from communicating with others.
Yes, Padre Pio was the AUTHOR of the contents of the letter. The prohibition was only against WRITING. Writing …More
But it does matter. Had Padre Pio physically written marks on paper and or simply affixed his signature, he would have been in violation of the orders from his superiors. Something he never did in our case. Fortunately for us, Padre Pio was NEVER forbidden from communicating with others.
Yes, Padre Pio was the AUTHOR of the contents of the letter. The prohibition was only against WRITING. Writing means "to make marks that represent letters, words, or numbers on a surface, such as paper or a computer screen, using a pen, pencil, or keyboard, or to use this method to record thoughts, facts, or messages" - Cambridge / Oxford definition
Therefore, Padre Pio was in point of fact obedient to his superiors... he didn't write... another person performed the task of writing (typing) for him.
thomasvalle
The problem is that people get their mindset formed by the internet, which is a wasteland of gossip, fake information and half truths. So much so that Catholics have been misled into attacking the very Vicar of Christ based on all the fake news they consume online. Furthermore there are agitators on line who specifically spread lies in order to divide the Church. Here is a video that shows how when …More
The problem is that people get their mindset formed by the internet, which is a wasteland of gossip, fake information and half truths. So much so that Catholics have been misled into attacking the very Vicar of Christ based on all the fake news they consume online. Furthermore there are agitators on line who specifically spread lies in order to divide the Church. Here is a video that shows how when people get their news from the talking heads on the internet they get a terribly distorted view of the pope: In Defense of the Pope
Sancte Teotónio
That Garabandal fakery has to be exposed!
Philadelphia Trad
Garabandal definitely happened, there's too much photographic and video evidence to say it didn't. But, in my opinion, it was a satanic possession and/or deception. Our Lady appearing in a ball of fire? The night of the screams? A "warning" when the Sacred Scriptures makes it perfectly clear that He will come like a thief in the night? There are too many red flags with this one. Best to stick with …More
Garabandal definitely happened, there's too much photographic and video evidence to say it didn't. But, in my opinion, it was a satanic possession and/or deception. Our Lady appearing in a ball of fire? The night of the screams? A "warning" when the Sacred Scriptures makes it perfectly clear that He will come like a thief in the night? There are too many red flags with this one. Best to stick with Fatima, Akita and other approved apparitions.
Sancte Teotónio
Yes by fakery, i mean charlatans, but it could also be demonic influence. I don't know how the girls walking without looking or with their head backwards didn't raise any suspicion on the townsfolk and the cult immediately started.
Also the circunstances of the death of the local priest are very weird. They say he saw "the miracle" and died of "joy". To me, most likely he saw the fakery and was …More
Yes by fakery, i mean charlatans, but it could also be demonic influence. I don't know how the girls walking without looking or with their head backwards didn't raise any suspicion on the townsfolk and the cult immediately started.

Also the circunstances of the death of the local priest are very weird. They say he saw "the miracle" and died of "joy". To me, most likely he saw the fakery and was snuffed out. With that the guardian was gone. Seems like an obstacle was removed.
LiveJohn
In the final analysis arguments for and against Garabandal really don't matter because the purpose behind the visitation by the Mother of God was the delivery of Important 'Messages for the World'. Those messages were given full ecclesiastical approval in a nota issued by Bishop Aldzabal of Santander shortly after the delivery of the second formal message by Saint Michael on June 18, 1965.
Statement …More
In the final analysis arguments for and against Garabandal really don't matter because the purpose behind the visitation by the Mother of God was the delivery of Important 'Messages for the World'. Those messages were given full ecclesiastical approval in a nota issued by Bishop Aldzabal of Santander shortly after the delivery of the second formal message by Saint Michael on June 18, 1965.
Statement by Bishop Aldazabal of Santander (Spain) who, in a nota dated July 8, 1965, had to admit:
"We would like to say, however, that we have found no grounds for an ecclesiastical condemnation, either in the doctrine or in the spiritual recommendations that have been divulged in the events and addressed to the Christian faithful; furthermore, these recommendations contain exhortations to prayer, sacrifice, devotion to the Holy Eucharist, and devotion to the Blessed Virgin under traditional praiseworthy forms; these are also exhortations to a holy fear of the Lord, offended by our sins..."
Commentators would have a hard time convincing me the Bishops declaration was conceived under demonic influence and therefore the events not credible or even false as some claim.
Final approval by the Church awaits fulfillment of the major prophecies, that's why the events remain classified as "Non-Constat" meaning the Church neither condemns nor approves the apparitions. Premature conclusions by others are mere speculations or at best, wishful thinking.
Carol H
In short, the bishop is clarifying that although the Church does not believe that anything supernatural is happening at Garabandal, it is not condemning the message of Garabandal that is in line with church doctrine and traditonal spiritual recommendations. The bishop is making a distinction lest anyone think the Church was coming out against prayer, sacrfice and the Holy Eucharist! That is all. …More
In short, the bishop is clarifying that although the Church does not believe that anything supernatural is happening at Garabandal, it is not condemning the message of Garabandal that is in line with church doctrine and traditonal spiritual recommendations. The bishop is making a distinction lest anyone think the Church was coming out against prayer, sacrfice and the Holy Eucharist! That is all. Meanwhile "Non-Constat" means that Garabandal is not to be promoted or held true until further notice (evidence) comes to light.
LiveJohn
@Carol H. Dear Carol your reference to "Non Constat" does not exclude promotion of the Holy Virgins Messages, nor commentary on the events themselves. It simply points to an over obsession on the 'supernatural aspect' at the expense of the more important Messages.
Pax.
Carol H
I understand the point you are making (and its a very good point) however may I add a little clarification: "Non Constat" is an old maxim used as a legal term today: it means "it is not settled"; "it is not certain". Now in a court of law, information presented that lacks tangible proof is called "non Constat" information. Ironically it can also mean 'it does not appear' ;) Are we allowed to promote …More
I understand the point you are making (and its a very good point) however may I add a little clarification: "Non Constat" is an old maxim used as a legal term today: it means "it is not settled"; "it is not certain". Now in a court of law, information presented that lacks tangible proof is called "non Constat" information. Ironically it can also mean 'it does not appear' ;) Are we allowed to promote something that is spiritually uncertain? The answer is no. Sure, we can promote anything in line with doctrine and traditional faith but we are not allowed to promote Garabandal as a visionary site.
LiveJohn
@Carol H. Hmm.... maybe a contradiction here? The instruction to the visionaries by the Holy Virgin was to make Her Messages known throughout the world. This equates to the promotion of Garabandal in the first instance otherwise how would the messages reach those most in need of them?
Early in the events while visiting Garabandal, Bishop Del Val Gallo gave a recommendation to his audience to focus …More
@Carol H. Hmm.... maybe a contradiction here? The instruction to the visionaries by the Holy Virgin was to make Her Messages known throughout the world. This equates to the promotion of Garabandal in the first instance otherwise how would the messages reach those most in need of them?
Early in the events while visiting Garabandal, Bishop Del Val Gallo gave a recommendation to his audience to focus primarily on the Virgins Messages. He did not exclude the Events per se.
There is no spiritual uncertainty in Bishop Aldzabal's declaration nor in the evidence of the Virgins appearances. Consequently I believe the two events to be 'mutually inclusive'. That is why Bishop Del Val was reluctant to make any distinction between them. In legal terms; Jurisprudence, (the science of law) would not apply to the Events at Garabandal since they too like the Messages satisfy the criteria for those of a "spiritual nature'(your term).
Spanish Psychiatrist, Dr Louis Morales who headed the initial investigation that brought down a negative judgement on the Garabandal events, later held a highly publicized address in Santander (approved by the Bishop) claiming that he had now received irrefutable proof of the authenticity of the apparitions!
Both former protagonists were to later spend their retirement years promoting the apparitions!
Carol H
Your opening statement/question seems to be a contradiction: "The instruction ...by the Holy virgin...". The Church is God's mouthpiece - not kids who say "the Virgin" said this or that. It equates to nothing because it has not been ruled as supernatural. Bishop of Santander, Jose Vilaplana (1996) declared in an official capacity: "All the bishops of the diocese since 1961 through 1970 agreed that …More
Your opening statement/question seems to be a contradiction: "The instruction ...by the Holy virgin...". The Church is God's mouthpiece - not kids who say "the Virgin" said this or that. It equates to nothing because it has not been ruled as supernatural. Bishop of Santander, Jose Vilaplana (1996) declared in an official capacity: "All the bishops of the diocese since 1961 through 1970 agreed that there was no supernatural validity for the apparitions....I agree with (and) I accept the decision of my predecessors and the direction of the Holy See." Now Eugenio Beitia Aldzabal, Bishop of Santander in 1962, is one of those bishops who reiterated the judgement of his predecessor and forbade priest or faithful from gathering there. Mgr. Vicente Puchol Montiz, Bishop of Santander in 1967 issued the following official declaration: "There was no apparition either of the Blessed Virgin or of St. Michael the Archangel or of any other celestial personage. There was no message (from heaven). All the phenomena which occured have a natural explanation." - (Ref. The Catholic News Archives). As for Dr. Morales - he is not the Church. Moreover it is odd that he should make such an about face. What is this amazing "irrefitable proof" that made him change his professional view? And why was he spending his retirement years defying and undermining the Church who maintained (and has maintained) her first ruling?
Carol H
P.s. Yes, the messages advocating, prayer, sacrifce, Holy eucharist were given ecclesiastical approval by Bishop Aldzabal of Santander. But he did not say the messesages were from heaven. Only that they mirror what the Church has taught. I could advocate, prayer, sacrifices and the Holy Eucharist and this of course would be approved by a churchman. But to then say that I have been sanctioned as …More
P.s. Yes, the messages advocating, prayer, sacrifce, Holy eucharist were given ecclesiastical approval by Bishop Aldzabal of Santander. But he did not say the messesages were from heaven. Only that they mirror what the Church has taught. I could advocate, prayer, sacrifices and the Holy Eucharist and this of course would be approved by a churchman. But to then say that I have been sanctioned as speaking from heaven is a huge leap in conjecture. To put it another way, the spirit of the messages is approved but not the messages themselves. This is because the Church believes the messages of Garabandal to be of human origin merely regurgitating Catholic teaching.
LiveJohn
@Carol H. Thanks for your comprehensive and detailed reply.
Briefly. Bishop Vilaplana accepted the decision of the Holy See which to this day remains unchanged as "Non Constat". No amount of debate can overnight change that classification to mean something else.
Yes, Dr Morales is not the Church but his address had full endorsement of his local bishop to whom the Vatican deferred those matters.
I …More
@Carol H. Thanks for your comprehensive and detailed reply.
Briefly. Bishop Vilaplana accepted the decision of the Holy See which to this day remains unchanged as "Non Constat". No amount of debate can overnight change that classification to mean something else.
Yes, Dr Morales is not the Church but his address had full endorsement of his local bishop to whom the Vatican deferred those matters.
I have written a number of posts on Garabandal and related issues which you may like to view here: @LiveJohn
I also recommend Homepage - Garabandal and more recently
Home - Garabandal is alive
Thank you for your interest.
LJ.
Carol H
Thank you, I will take a look. As for "Non Constat", yes, the classification is clear: "Not certain": the supernatural nature of Garabandal, despite numerous investigations, and promises of all sorts of miracles, is not certain. Do we promote what is not certain? Is it wise to promote what is not certain? It is necessary and helpful to our soul to promote what is not certain? And, could the acceptance …More
Thank you, I will take a look. As for "Non Constat", yes, the classification is clear: "Not certain": the supernatural nature of Garabandal, despite numerous investigations, and promises of all sorts of miracles, is not certain. Do we promote what is not certain? Is it wise to promote what is not certain? It is necessary and helpful to our soul to promote what is not certain? And, could the acceptance of "not certain" open the floodgates to all sorts of questionable "apparitions"....? The answer to all these questions rests in common sense. We must also makes distinctions. A bishop giving Dr. Morales permission to air his personal thoughts on the matter, does not mean that the bishop was condoning his view. It was 1983 - the first big wave of the "ecumenical" fervour; the tsunami of false charity. I think in this discussion it is best if we stick to what the Church has said, in her official capacity, and not the private opinion of sorts of other people who have no authority (or business) in this case.
LiveJohn
@Carol H. The authority on these matters rests with the Roman Catholic Church. Had it determined the events to have no supernatural aspect to them as you claim, it would have ruled 'Constat de non supernaturalitate' (It is not supernatural).
The reason it didn’t is because the events of themselves are insufficient at this stage for it to make any final declaration. It’s also why it awaits fulfillment …More
@Carol H. The authority on these matters rests with the Roman Catholic Church. Had it determined the events to have no supernatural aspect to them as you claim, it would have ruled 'Constat de non supernaturalitate' (It is not supernatural).
The reason it didn’t is because the events of themselves are insufficient at this stage for it to make any final declaration. It’s also why it awaits fulfillment of the major prophesies as conclusive proof.
In actual fact, the events have their own inbuilt protection against any false declaration by the hierarchy as they alone amongst Marian Apparitions will prove their own authenticity by those prophesies. Meantime, we should make every effort to Live the Virgins Messages before its too late.
Carol H
And if they are not fulfilled? 1961 ....... and so far all predictions out of Conchita's mouth have been proven false. Do you think it makes sense that God would drag it out for so long - 61 years and counting - by withholding the "decisive" miracle of proof while allowing all other predictions to fall flat? And without any certainty of its authencity? Meanwhile - where is the obedience of the …More
And if they are not fulfilled? 1961 ....... and so far all predictions out of Conchita's mouth have been proven false. Do you think it makes sense that God would drag it out for so long - 61 years and counting - by withholding the "decisive" miracle of proof while allowing all other predictions to fall flat? And without any certainty of its authencity? Meanwhile - where is the obedience of the faithful and priests who promote "an uncertain" apparition? At the end of the day, it is not signs and wonders that prove an apparition, it's the voice of the Church. And if they have not ruled a definative "non supernaturalitate" it is not because of a predicted grand miracle (the bishops have already said they believe the "apparition" to be of human origin), it is because they do not wish to be seen condemning the call to prayer, sacrifice and the Holy Eucharist.
LiveJohn
@Carol H. Dear Carol, Too many negatives. Wait until fulfillment of the major prophecies before drawing any conclusion.
(The longer the wait the better the chance for sinners (all of us) to respond to the Holy Virgins Messages).
Pax Vobiscum.
Carol H
My conclusions are the Church's conclusion. And if that's overly negative - well, it says a lot about Garabandal. To my mind its the carrot and stick act - "Forget the authority of Rome, just follow your own conclusions and a great miracle will await you". Suddenly, one's spiritual focus is switched to an "apparition" and the voice of the Church is no longer important. Ask yourself, what happens …More
My conclusions are the Church's conclusion. And if that's overly negative - well, it says a lot about Garabandal. To my mind its the carrot and stick act - "Forget the authority of Rome, just follow your own conclusions and a great miracle will await you". Suddenly, one's spiritual focus is switched to an "apparition" and the voice of the Church is no longer important. Ask yourself, what happens when the carrot turns out to be an illusion...? I've seen it happen and its ugly. Look, if the individual wants to believe in Garabadal, that's their choice - but it is wrong to promote it as "a truth"; it is wrong to promote an uncertain "apparition" that the Church has not approved; and it is wrong to mount a defence (mis)using the name of Padre Pio etc against the judgement of the Church. My parent's era was told "just wait for the great miracle and then you'll see". Gosh, they are in their 80's now and the old "you'll see" argument is still being used... Prayer, Sacrifice and the Holy Eucharist - that is the approved message of Fatima, that is the traditonal remedy of the Church, and that should be our only focus. Not signs and wonders. that is something I'm sure we can all agree on :)
LiveJohn
Attempted overreach on your part does nothing to resolve the mess the world and the church is now in. I completely reject your opening premise.
Sancte Teotónio
@Carol H Exactly what i tried to explain to the followers of the cult of Garabandal, but they are too attached and the fact that they don't follow Church teaching and authority makes matters even worst.
The same spirit that "animates" garabandal also aninamates medjugorie.
The truth is out there for everyone with eyes to see and ears to hear.
Let's pray for the intercession of Our Lady, who crushes …More
@Carol H Exactly what i tried to explain to the followers of the cult of Garabandal, but they are too attached and the fact that they don't follow Church teaching and authority makes matters even worst.

The same spirit that "animates" garabandal also aninamates medjugorie.

The truth is out there for everyone with eyes to see and ears to hear.
Let's pray for the intercession of Our Lady, who crushes all errors and heresies, to really enlighten these poor souls and stop those who are misusing her name.
Carol H
LiveJohn, one man's sacrifice changed the world; I have no doubt that Our Lady's Imaculate Heart will triump. Meanwhile, my duty is to live a faithful Catholic life day to day and leave the future to God. The Church is our Ark and while it is sailing through a storm, I'm obliged to ride those waves with it knowing that I'm sailing with Christ who promised that the "gates of hell would never prevail …More
LiveJohn, one man's sacrifice changed the world; I have no doubt that Our Lady's Imaculate Heart will triump. Meanwhile, my duty is to live a faithful Catholic life day to day and leave the future to God. The Church is our Ark and while it is sailing through a storm, I'm obliged to ride those waves with it knowing that I'm sailing with Christ who promised that the "gates of hell would never prevail against it". Alas, with Garabandal, it is not the Ark that will save mankind, but an extraordinary sign and wonder; a very dangerous carrot...

Sancte Teotónio, I think you are correct - Garabandal paved the way for Medjugorie; it opened the door. And yes, it Our Blessed Mother who will lead the Church through this mad confusion and safely to port - St. John Bosco 😊
LiveJohn
@Carol H. If you want to go down the Medjugorje path that's your business but count me out.
Cheers.
Carol H
"...the events have their own inbuilt protection against any false declaration by the hierarchy....". This statement of yours tells us clearly how you view the Church; it is not to be trusted. Your loyalty and hope now rests with an "uncertain" apparition of 61 years ago. Of course I understand why you have lost faith in the hierarchy, however we cannot lose sight of the fact that the Church itself …More
"...the events have their own inbuilt protection against any false declaration by the hierarchy....". This statement of yours tells us clearly how you view the Church; it is not to be trusted. Your loyalty and hope now rests with an "uncertain" apparition of 61 years ago. Of course I understand why you have lost faith in the hierarchy, however we cannot lose sight of the fact that the Church itself is divine and will never allow any false declarations to be made officially in her name. Again, our trust and hope must be in the Church, not an "apparition" which lies "outside" of the Church as it has no seal of approval. As for Medjugorje - the point I was making - and I believe Sancte Teotonia was making - is that Garabandal set a dangerous precedent (individuals making up their own minds about what apparition is genuine or not). That is all.