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Schönborn: Vatican Has Recognized Medjugorje As A “Shrine”

The false apparition location of Medjugorje is "listed as a shrine" in the Vatican, the anti-Catholic Vienna Cardinal Christoph Schönborn told the “Oase des Friedens” magazine.

Schönborn speaks of a “recognition," which is also expressed by the fact that Francis, during his May Covid Rosary Marathon, chose Medjugorje as one of the thirty shrines where the Rosary was prayed and broadcast.

According to Schönborn, Francis has "taken very decisive steps for Medjugorje" and has "taken the subject personally to his heart.” For this, Schönborn “cannot thank him enough," he said. During his visits to Medjugorje, Schönborn himself "felt" the inner conviction that the Blessed Mother Mary was personally present.

There is no relying on the "feelings" of Schönborn, who organises homosex shows in his cathedral, promotes the invalid ordination of women, and speaks of "our Martin Luther."

Picture: Christoph Schönborn, © Mazur, CC BY-NC-SA, #newsChptbkypwc

Kevin
People have been quoting Mark Miravalle on this thread as though he were some kind of expert. But he was a prolific supporter of the alleged 'Our Lady of All Nations' apparitions at Amsterdam, which have now been condemned by the Vatican and the Local Ordinary: Local Bishop and Vatican Condemn Apparitions Of “Our Lady Of All Nations” after enjoying some kind of apparent approval from the Local …More
People have been quoting Mark Miravalle on this thread as though he were some kind of expert. But he was a prolific supporter of the alleged 'Our Lady of All Nations' apparitions at Amsterdam, which have now been condemned by the Vatican and the Local Ordinary: Local Bishop and Vatican Condemn Apparitions Of “Our Lady Of All Nations” after enjoying some kind of apparent approval from the Local Ordinary for a while. So Miravalle was wrong about Amsterdam. The same thing could happen with Medjugorje.
Starlight777
The Virgin of Medjugorje has been preparing us for a new time. Forty years of apparitions by our Mother have only been heeded by a small segment of Catholics. Those who reject now will probably be sorrowful for the time they wasted later. The span of time of 'forty' is shown time and time again in the Bible to be a time of preparation. Forty days of rain in the time of Noah, forty years in the …More
The Virgin of Medjugorje has been preparing us for a new time. Forty years of apparitions by our Mother have only been heeded by a small segment of Catholics. Those who reject now will probably be sorrowful for the time they wasted later. The span of time of 'forty' is shown time and time again in the Bible to be a time of preparation. Forty days of rain in the time of Noah, forty years in the desert for the Israelites, forty days that Elijah walked to Mount Horeb where the LORD passed by him, forty days in the desert when Jesus fasted and prayed, forty days after the Resurrection when Jesus was lifted up and ascended into Heaven. This message is from 1991 "Dear children! Today, on this great day, which you have given to me, I desire to bless all of you and to say: these days while I am with you are days of grace. I desire to teach you and help you to walk the way of holiness. There are many people who do not desire to understand my messages and to accept with seriousness what I am saying. But you I therefore call and ask that by your lives and by your daily living you witness my presence. If you pray, God will help you to discover the true reason for my coming. Therefore, little children, pray and read the Sacred Scriptures so that through my coming you discover the message in Sacred Scripture for you. Thank you for having responded to my call." (Message, June 25,1991) (June 25th is known as the day that Our Mother wanted us to recognize as the day of Our Lady Queen of Peace.)
Kevin
Two good websites with tons of official background material:-
medjugorjedocuments.blogspot.com
marcocorvaglia.com
tearlach
I'm sure lot could have gone to another city with his family, yet he still lived where he lived, and I"m sure he prayed too. Our Lord Jesus was among sinners who knows what kind, and he was crucified with two thieves, he could have chosen something better don't you think?

We are so afraid to go after the lost sheep because when we discover that they've grown horns and sharp teeth and bite, then …More
I'm sure lot could have gone to another city with his family, yet he still lived where he lived, and I"m sure he prayed too. Our Lord Jesus was among sinners who knows what kind, and he was crucified with two thieves, he could have chosen something better don't you think?

We are so afraid to go after the lost sheep because when we discover that they've grown horns and sharp teeth and bite, then we are afraid of confrontations, or to be mocked at, or laughed at, or judged unfairly, etc.

Fear out, I saw a priest praying the rosary among gays and lesbians who were protesting and also speaking about gay rights. He was among them praying the rosary and he was pushed, yelled at, mocked, and they became violent but he did nothing to defend himself he kept praying, the police came and almost arrested him, and told him he had no affairs among them, yet he said he was just praying in a peaceful way and not doing anything else, and that he also had the right to do that.

They arrested him for doing nothing but loving them, so yes, there's better places to do that, definitively, our Christianity is well put behind closed doors. A reason why priest don't want to give last rites or bring the sacraments to people who are in hospitals, what for right? There's better places to do that, and the list can go on and on and ...on. God Bless.
tearlach
Ha, ha. Well where there's a rosary and not something else or any weird stuff or people, I'm in. Pope Francis has already said that he does not believe in Medjurge apparitions. Whether people want to see it as a shrine or as a cenacle of prayer is up to them, but just because none of us can agree it does not mean we can not come together to pray. God still works in mysterious ways.

I've been to …More
Ha, ha. Well where there's a rosary and not something else or any weird stuff or people, I'm in. Pope Francis has already said that he does not believe in Medjurge apparitions. Whether people want to see it as a shrine or as a cenacle of prayer is up to them, but just because none of us can agree it does not mean we can not come together to pray. God still works in mysterious ways.

I've been to one false apparition site in Mojave, and yes I have to admit, miracle pictures taken with polaroid cameras, miracle signs in the sky, faces drawn with clouds very clearly visible, miraculous cures with medical proof of people with cancer, aids, etc.

But just because the place is a false apparitions with all these miracles and wonders created by demons it does not mean I can't pray there, after all, and not comparing myself to saints, they went to places infested by demons to draw them away.

We need to leave our differences aside and do what's right; we are the church militant, so let's behave like such. By the way this place is in Mojave desert in S. California, and the alleged visionary making great money with all these demons is called Maria Paula although her real name is not that, she claims that name was given to her by Jesus. Unfortunately the presence of priest, nuns and at one time one Cardinal from China or so, made things worst especially when they speak for the Catholic church.
Ultraviolet
"But just because the place is a false apparitions with all these miracles and wonders created by demons it does not mean I can't pray there..."

True, but surely there are better places to pray. You can pray in a brothel or a bar catering to homosexuals, by why go there in the first place?

In this case, doing so would tacitly legitimize a fraud.

"they went to places infested by demons to draw…More
"But just because the place is a false apparitions with all these miracles and wonders created by demons it does not mean I can't pray there..."

True, but surely there are better places to pray. You can pray in a brothel or a bar catering to homosexuals, by why go there in the first place?

In this case, doing so would tacitly legitimize a fraud.

"they went to places infested by demons to draw them away."

True again, but a.) as you rightly note, you're not a saint. They also expelled the demons and nobody's done that to this wretched Bosnian backwater.

"we are the church militant, so let's behave like such."

True for a third time, but... that contradicts "We need to leave our differences aside and do what's right;"

Those differences separate truth from falsehood. Anyone can use the "we need to leave our differences aside" argument to ignore, well... every doctrinal outrage pushed today. Here's the official portrait of America's Pro-Abortion Catholic President, now let's all set our differences aside and support his social policies, right?
mccallansteve
Simple: Medjugoria is a satanic fraud. It will be declared as such one day by the true Catholic Church.
Ultraviolet
Only a matter of time before it gets the official recognition for the reasons @Live Mike has so accuratedly described with the inevitable results he predicts.
Live Mike
Thanks
Ultraviolet
None needed. :) You're correct, obviously researched this subject, and are passionate about it. I can safely predict you won't change anyone's convictions, but you may very well keep the undecided from being led into error. When it comes to The Faith, that's time never wasted.
petrus100452
@Live Mike: I don't put myself forward to anything, but I am lic. theol. and I have to say that Starlight 777 is right. He (or she) does not claim any special theological education, he/she is absolutely right in her considerations and conviction concerning Medjugorje.
If you think that the quotation you cited is "heretical" then you have little or no understanding of theological language. And …More
@Live Mike: I don't put myself forward to anything, but I am lic. theol. and I have to say that Starlight 777 is right. He (or she) does not claim any special theological education, he/she is absolutely right in her considerations and conviction concerning Medjugorje.
If you think that the quotation you cited is "heretical" then you have little or no understanding of theological language. And there is absolutely no contradiction between the messages of Fatima and the messages of Medjugorje. Dr. Mark Miravalle - a well known and renowned Mariologist - wrote his dissertation about this subject. If you want a solid theological discussion, you should read his thesis. Maybe you come to understand that your assertion doesn't hold water.
petrus100452
@Mike Live: For your information: Message of Medjugorje: Marian Message to the Modern World PB Book 1986 by Mark I. Miravalle (Author) Through concise theological analyses, this book demonstrates that the messages reported by seven Yugoslavian youths from Medjugorje and attributed to the Blessed Virgin Mary represent an authentic embodiment of Catholic doctrine.The contents of the Medjugorjian…More
@Mike Live: For your information: Message of Medjugorje: Marian Message to the Modern World PB Book 1986 by Mark I. Miravalle (Author) Through concise theological analyses, this book demonstrates that the messages reported by seven Yugoslavian youths from Medjugorje and attributed to the Blessed Virgin Mary represent an authentic embodiment of Catholic doctrine.The contents of the Medjugorjian message are also said to represent a post-Conciliar formulation of the approved Marian messages. Mark Miravalle has done an excellent job in showing that the apparitions of the Blessed Virgin at Medjugorje are in continuity with the apparitions at Lourdes and Fatima and reflect the teachings of the church, as affirmed at Vatican II. (Giles Dimock) About the Author Mark I. Miravalle is Assistant Professor of Theology at the Franciscan University of Steubenville
Live Mike
@petrus100452 I am nothing but am very thankful to God for all I was allowed to learn in seminary for 7½ years (B.A. in Thomistic Philosophy and an M.Div. in Theology). Catholics, who've studied Christology know the citations are heretical.
Please read the following solid Catholic publications:
"Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma" by Ludwig Ott, The Doctrine of God the Redeemer
"The Catechism …More
@petrus100452 I am nothing but am very thankful to God for all I was allowed to learn in seminary for 7½ years (B.A. in Thomistic Philosophy and an M.Div. in Theology). Catholics, who've studied Christology know the citations are heretical.
Please read the following solid Catholic publications:
"Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma" by Ludwig Ott, The Doctrine of God the Redeemer
"The Catechism Explained 1899" by Francis Spirago, The Apostles' Creed: The Person of the Redeemer
"The Catechism of the Council of Trent 1923 translation", Articles I to VI
"The Sources Of Catholic Dogma" by Henry Denzinger,
ST. DIONYSIUS
ST. DAMASUS I - Council of Rome, 382
COUNCIL OF EPHESUS, 431
ST. LEO I
COUNCIL OF CHALCEDON, 451
ST. GELASIUS I
JOHN II
ST. GREGORY I, THE GREAT
HONORIUS I
ST. MARTIN I
The Lateran Council, 649
Council of Toledo XI, 675
Roman Council, 680
COUNCIL OF CONSTANTINOPLE III, 680-681
Council of Toledo XV, 685
Council of Toledo XVI, 693
Council of Frankfort, 794
Council of Friuli (Friaul), 796
petrus100452
@Live Mike: I have read them all. Your argument holds no water. Maybe you still didn't grasp what these saints and councils were saying. Do you realize how many excellent theologians you are discrediting? You say you are nothing, but you think you know better than John Paul II, Mark Miravalle, Fr. Benedict Groeschel, Rene Laurentin, Fr. Gabriel Amorth, just to name a few. Quite something for "a …More
@Live Mike: I have read them all. Your argument holds no water. Maybe you still didn't grasp what these saints and councils were saying. Do you realize how many excellent theologians you are discrediting? You say you are nothing, but you think you know better than John Paul II, Mark Miravalle, Fr. Benedict Groeschel, Rene Laurentin, Fr. Gabriel Amorth, just to name a few. Quite something for "a nothing".
Ultraviolet
"but I am lic. theol. and I have to say that Starlight 777 is right." @petrus100452

No evidence presented showing Starlight is right. Credentials are not enough. Fallacious Appeal To Authority,

Also, Anecdotal Evidence (a fallacy here since no evidence of credentials supplied).

"If you think that the quotation you cited is "heretical" then you have little or no understanding of theological …More
"but I am lic. theol. and I have to say that Starlight 777 is right." @petrus100452

No evidence presented showing Starlight is right. Credentials are not enough. Fallacious Appeal To Authority,

Also, Anecdotal Evidence (a fallacy here since no evidence of credentials supplied).

"If you think that the quotation you cited is "heretical" then you have little or no understanding of theological language."

No True Scotsman Fallacy (Fallacious Appeal to Purity).

"And there is absolutely no contradiction between the messages of Fatima and the messages of Medjugorje."

Unsupported claim.

Maaaaan... your theology courses did NOT include "Intro to Logic" and "Principles of Debate". How on earth can a "licensed theologian" defend The Church without knowing how to effectively argue/ counter-argue his position?

No wonder Holland is essentially a Muslim country, now. Look at the losers we have on "our side". :P

"Dr. Mark Miravalle - a well known and renowned Mariologist - wrote his dissertation about this subject."

Let's Level-Up that Fallacious Appeal to Authority. He wrote a dissertation... whoo... o.O Big deal.. :D Seriously. .

"Maybe you come to understand that your assertion doesn't hold water."

Maybe you should quote (and link) citations from Dr. Miravalle's work that disprove @Live Mike claims , instead.

"About the Author Mark I. Miravalle is Assistant Professor of Theology at the Franciscan University of Steubenville"

LOL... Petrus is literally cut n' pasting from the Amazon extract.
amazon.com/Message-Medjugorje-Mark-I-Miravalle/dp/0819152897

Since you're is not citing your source (I had to go chek), this is technically plagiarism. Naughty, naughty. Don't they teach licensed theologians how important it is to document their sources? ;-)

Just to clarify, I'm not fighting @Live Mike's battles for him. I'm just showing how incompetent you are at fighting your own. :D

"You say you are nothing, but you think you know better than John Paul II, Mark Miravalle, Fr. Benedict Groeschel, Rene Laurentin, Fr. Gabriel Amorth..."

Oh lovely, another GTV Psychic who knows what other users think. pic related :P
Live Mike
@petrus wrote, "I have read them all." Wonderful, and having read all of them you can help the ignorant readers, like myself, to comprehend & understand what the messages of 2 July 2017 and 2 November 2017 meant in accordance with the Solemn Dogmatic Doctrine of the Catholic Church.
[...] "my most beloved Son" [...]"He who was man; He who was and is God – one and triune;"
rosasparalagospa.com/……More
@petrus wrote, "I have read them all." Wonderful, and having read all of them you can help the ignorant readers, like myself, to comprehend & understand what the messages of 2 July 2017 and 2 November 2017 meant in accordance with the Solemn Dogmatic Doctrine of the Catholic Church.
[...] "my most beloved Son" [...]"He who was man; He who was and is God – one and triune;"
rosasparalagospa.com/…de-julio-de-2017-en-medjugorje-bosnia-herzegovina/ +
"Never forget that my Son, one and triune, loves you."
rosasparalagospa.com/…oviembre-de-2017-en-medjugorje-bosnia-herzegovina/ +
How many persons are there in Jesus Christ? How many natures are there in Jesus Christ? Does Jesus Christ, Resurrected and Glorified, have a human nature?
How do the experts reconcile the apparent contradictions?
What does the title "Mother of God" given to the Blessed Virgin Mary mean?

Additionally, these men never had a chance to review the messages of 2017.
Pope John Paul II died 2 April 2005
Fr. Benedict Groeschel died 3 October 2014
Fr. Gabriel Amorth died 16 September 2016
Fr. Rene Laurentin died 10 September 2017
Dr Bobus
I don't consider this latest news an indication that the apparitions will be confirmed as of supernatural origin.

Every person I have ever spoken with (and they all were pious) who has visited Medjugorje I have asked: Have you been to Fatima? The answer has always been No.
petrus100452
@Dr Bobus: Fyi: I have been maybe twenty times in Fatima and more than 50 times in Medjugorje. And if you are American (I don't know of course) then you surely haven't spoken many people because in Medjugorje I have met many Americans who make a "Europe pilgrimage", including Lourdes, GFatima, Rome and Medjugorje.
petrus100452
@Live Mike: Why don't you ask Dr. Mark Miravalle. He is a more qualified theologian ( even Mariologist) than I am. You can reach Dr. Miravalle here: mary@motherofallpeoples.comMore
@Live Mike: Why don't you ask Dr. Mark Miravalle. He is a more qualified theologian ( even Mariologist) than I am. You can reach Dr. Miravalle here: mary@motherofallpeoples.com
Live Mike
Thank you, No... This Catholic writer is not interested in authors who may have been influenced by Pierre Teilhard de Chardin or any Heterodox theologians of the Nouvelle théologie.
petrus100452
@Live Mike: Why, then, do you ask? Do you only read authors who confirm your bias? It would testify to a certain greatness of spirit to take notice of different views. But you are free of course to enclose yourself in your tunnel vision where even the Holy Spirit cannot penetrate.
Live Mike
@petrus100452 The answers to the questions, you've refused to answer have already been solemnly defined as Doctrine of the Catholic Church and those answers expose the heresy within the messages of Medjugorje. [Something you don't want to see.] No... Catholics don't read authors who confirm a "bias." Catholics read the unalterable unchanging immutable Truth which has been faithfully passed …More
@petrus100452 The answers to the questions, you've refused to answer have already been solemnly defined as Doctrine of the Catholic Church and those answers expose the heresy within the messages of Medjugorje. [Something you don't want to see.] No... Catholics don't read authors who confirm a "bias." Catholics read the unalterable unchanging immutable Truth which has been faithfully passed down to us.

"The apostles entrusted the "Sacred deposit" of the faith (the depositum fidei), contained in Sacred Scripture and Tradition, to the whole of the Church. "By adhering to [this heritage] the entire holy people, united to its pastors, remains always faithful to the teaching of the apostles, to the brotherhood, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. So, in maintaining, practicing and professing the faith that has been handed on, there should be a remarkable harmony between the bishops and the faithful." - Catechism of the Catholic Church - Paragraph #84

"O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you. Avoid the godless chatter and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge" - 1 Timothy 6:20 (RSVCE)

"Follow the pattern of the sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus; guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us." - 2 Timothy 1:13-14 (RSVCE)
petrus100452
@Live Mike: I don't "refuse" answers. I just think it is pointless to explain something to someone who is convinced that he already knows the "unalterable, unchanging, immutable Truth" and consequently shuts himself off to any new understanding. Jesus told His apostles that He had to say a lot more, but that they were not ready to understand it. That is why he promised the Holy Spirit Who will …More
@Live Mike: I don't "refuse" answers. I just think it is pointless to explain something to someone who is convinced that he already knows the "unalterable, unchanging, immutable Truth" and consequently shuts himself off to any new understanding. Jesus told His apostles that He had to say a lot more, but that they were not ready to understand it. That is why he promised the Holy Spirit Who will guide us to the fullness of the Truth. But since you think that you already know the fullness of Truth, any answer or explanation is pointless. I think the future holds some pretty unexpected surprises for you. We will see.
Live Mike
Yes, perhaps "it is pointless" as Catholics reject notions flowing from Modernism, Historicism and Relativism. @petrus
Ultraviolet
" I have met many Americans who make a "Europe pilgrimage" @petrus100452 I see GTV's "licenensed theologian" is in fine form today...Because the opinion of American Catholics is reflected entirely by those who go to Medjugorje. Also this... Pic related. :P
petrus100452
@Ultraviolet: What is self-evident doesn't need evidence. But that's something you won't understand. youtube.com/watch?v=G0y89TmlQh0
petrus100452
@Ultraviolet: you are also in fine form today... licensened...... English isn't even my mother tongue.
Ultraviolet
The only thing "self-evident" here is your reasoning stinks worse than my spelling. Fortunately the latter is simply the result of typing too fast. The former is an intellectual defect. Simply put, my WPM (words per minute) is higher than your IQ. :P Incidentally, criticizing my spelling, in this context, is one of these... (pic related) :D
salliperson
Want to know the truth about M? Listen to what the original bishop of M had to say about the apparition and you will have the truth.
123jussi
We can be sure of one thing about this " Shrine" and that is that the BVM never appeared there.As Live Mike points out it is only a distraction from the true message of God delivered by Our Lady of Fatima. Devote yourselves to the Imaculate Heart and you will remain safe in these evil times.
petrus100452
petrus100452
Live Mike
The wolves in sheep's clothing want the pro-Vatican II false apparition advocated & promoted in order to draw our attention away from God's Solution delivered by Our Lady of Fatima. Medjugorje is NOT the fulfillment of Fatima. The 5 First Saturdays, The Consecration of Russia and The Great Secret of Fatima ARE God's Solution. Fr. Malachi Martin (reader of the Third Secret of Fatima in February …More
The wolves in sheep's clothing want the pro-Vatican II false apparition advocated & promoted in order to draw our attention away from God's Solution delivered by Our Lady of Fatima. Medjugorje is NOT the fulfillment of Fatima. The 5 First Saturdays, The Consecration of Russia and The Great Secret of Fatima ARE God's Solution. Fr. Malachi Martin (reader of the Third Secret of Fatima in February 1960) during an interview with Bernard Janzen in the 90's declared, "Medjugorje is a Satanic Hoax."
Live Mike
The Great "Marian" Satanic Hoax
youtube.com/watch?v=s8EgdKhYPvE
petrus100452
Live Mike: I do not know any other people who observe the 5 Saturdays as well as the Medjugorje believers. The consecration of Russia and the "Great Secret" are beyond the power of the ordinary faithful, they can only pray for it. And btw: Medjugorje is credible, beyond any reasonable doubt. Be prepared!
Live Mike
@petrus100452: That's curious, because most people I know who observe the 5 First Saturdays reject Medjugorje and accept the condemnation in the Letter to Thierry Boutet, the editor of Famille Chrétienne, written by Bishop Ratko Peric on October 2, 1997. The judgement of the ordinary of the diocese (the local bishop) has always been the standard for approbation or condemnation of an apparition.…More
@petrus100452: That's curious, because most people I know who observe the 5 First Saturdays reject Medjugorje and accept the condemnation in the Letter to Thierry Boutet, the editor of Famille Chrétienne, written by Bishop Ratko Peric on October 2, 1997. The judgement of the ordinary of the diocese (the local bishop) has always been the standard for approbation or condemnation of an apparition. In the case of Medjugorje, the Bishop of Mostar did something unique, powerful and significant. In this letter Bishop Ratko Peric wrote that he judges the alleged apparitions to be proven False and Not Supernatural.
———————————————————————
Mostar October 2, 1997
Protocol Number: 1267/97

Honorable Mr. Boutet,

I am answering your letter of September 29, 1997 received by fax from the Nunciature of Sarajevo […]

On the basis of the serious study of the case by 30 of our ‘studiosi’ [academics] (well three Commissions), on my episcopal experience of five years in the Diocese, on the scandalous disobedience that surrounds the phenomenon, on the lies that are at times put into the mouth of the “Madonna”, on the unusual repetition of “messages” of over 16 years, on the strange way that the “spiritual directors” of the so-called “visionaries” accompany them through the world making propaganda of them, on the practice that the “Madonna” appears at the “fiat” (let her come!) of the “visionaries”,

my conviction and position is not only non constat de supernaturalitate [the supernaturality is not proven] but also the other formula constat de non supernaturalitate [the non-supernaturality is proven] of the apparitions or revelations of Medjugorje.
[...]

(Signed and affixed with the Episcopal Seal)
———————————————————————

"constat de non supernaturalitate" means:
– the non-supernaturality is proven
– it is evident to be of non-supernatural origin
– it is established not supernatural

Incidentally, the local bishops of the following sites NEVER pronounced the type of condemnation we see in Medjugorje:
Quito, La Salette, Fatima, Tre Fontane, San Sebastián de Garabandal, and Akita.
123jussi
Really? Where did you get the first Saturday stats from? I think you are making it up just like the evil seers ! The church has refused to approve it and so should you no matter how many rosaries are turning to gold.
petrus100452
@123jussi and @Live Mike: time will tell and I know you will desperate. But keep heart: Mary can obtain forgiveness, even for the most hardened hearts.
frawley
Prior to being approved all Marian apparition sites had plenty of detractors including Fatima and Lourdes. The reality is that none of us know for sure. We wait on the wisdom of the Church. For those who the wisdom of the church is not enough, the protestant church awaits
petrus100452
@frawley: the "wisdom of the church" has made many mistakes with regard to mystical experiences and private revelations: sr. Faustina, padre Pio, Akita, Amsterdam, presently Medjugorje, etc. "Wisdom is justified by her deeds." And the deeds from Medjugorje are very good indeed: countless conversions, several new religious communities originated in Medjugorje, many works of charity, countless …More
@frawley: the "wisdom of the church" has made many mistakes with regard to mystical experiences and private revelations: sr. Faustina, padre Pio, Akita, Amsterdam, presently Medjugorje, etc. "Wisdom is justified by her deeds." And the deeds from Medjugorje are very good indeed: countless conversions, several new religious communities originated in Medjugorje, many works of charity, countless healings (for all spiritual healings and deliverances from (drugs)addictions, countless prayergroups all over the world and above all: hope for the Church and for humanity. Believe and love the Queen of Peace!
Live Mike
@petrus100452 There is no doubt about the fruits but fruits have no bearing upon the veracity of the apparitions. As an aside, you'll recall these Catholic Moral Principles: "The Ends Never Justify The Means" and "One May Not Do Evil So That Good May Come From It."
Starlight777
If there are no doubt about the fruits, then why disdain the apparitions? One of the main points that the Virgin asks for is to pray for the conversion of unbelievers. Unbelievers are responsible for all the problems today that we are facing. Fasting on bread and water on Wednesdays and Fridays is what the Virgin has asked us to do. Praying all the mysteries of the rosary everyday is what the …More
If there are no doubt about the fruits, then why disdain the apparitions? One of the main points that the Virgin asks for is to pray for the conversion of unbelievers. Unbelievers are responsible for all the problems today that we are facing. Fasting on bread and water on Wednesdays and Fridays is what the Virgin has asked us to do. Praying all the mysteries of the rosary everyday is what the Virgin has asked us to do. Reconciling with each other and with God is what the Virgin has asked us to do. Reading scripture every day is what the Virgin has asked us to do as well as going to confession at least every month and attending Holy Mass as often as possible. I do not understand why this apparition gets so much hostility from devout Catholics. We should be doing everything we can to make reparation for the grave sins committed everyday and for the conversion of sinners.
Live Mike
@Starlight777 Our Lady, the Destroyer of all heresies, cannot contradict Herself nor the Teachings of the Catholic Church. While Fatima was critical of Vatican II [see Rev. Ingo Döllinger, St. Padre Pio] Medjugorje has clearly embraced the Counciliar and or Post-Conciliar Documents of Vatican II. Fatima and Medjudgorje are diametrically opposed and fundamentally irreconcilable no matter how many …More
@Starlight777 Our Lady, the Destroyer of all heresies, cannot contradict Herself nor the Teachings of the Catholic Church. While Fatima was critical of Vatican II [see Rev. Ingo Döllinger, St. Padre Pio] Medjugorje has clearly embraced the Counciliar and or Post-Conciliar Documents of Vatican II. Fatima and Medjudgorje are diametrically opposed and fundamentally irreconcilable no matter how many superficial veneer-like similarities may exist. To give just one theologically problematic example of which there are many... Please visit the official Messages of Medjudgorje website and then look at the approved translation of the message on July 2, 2017 and on November 2, 2017. Whatever it is that appears there said, "[...] my most beloved Son also feels it: He who, through his merciful love, is always sending me to you anew; He who WAS man; He who WAS and IS God – ONE and TRIUNE" "Never forget that MY SON, ONE and TRIUNE, loves you." [emphasis added] If one is unable to find the theological errors in both of these statements then one doesn't know the Catholic Faith. The Queen of Heaven would never make such serious mistakes. The Blessed Virgin Mary has a unique relationship with the Three Divine Persons of the Most Holy Trinity. God created the Blessed Virgin Mary as Daughter of the Heavenly Father, Mother of the Divine Son, and Spouse of the Holy Ghost. It is erroneous to say the Blessed Virgin Mary is the Mother of the Most Holy Trinity or that Jesus Christ is Triune. Furthermore, Jesus Christ is One Divine Person (The Second Person) Hypostatically United with two natures (human and Divine). Jesus Christ after His Passion, Death, Resurrection and Ascension never lost or divorced Himself from His human nature. To say that Jesus WAS man but no longer IS man is heresy. It is impossible for Our Lady to make these kinds of grave errors. However, it is very possible that a poorly trained or theologically ignorant con artist, deceiver and fraudster would make such a mistake.
Starlight777
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post. I am not a theologian so although I try to read each message and let it seep into my understanding and let it help me live my Faith, I do not try to find error in the messages because for the most part, I believe that my Mother is appearing there and has urged us unceasingly to conversion over these last forty years. I do believe that the …More
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post. I am not a theologian so although I try to read each message and let it seep into my understanding and let it help me live my Faith, I do not try to find error in the messages because for the most part, I believe that my Mother is appearing there and has urged us unceasingly to conversion over these last forty years. I do believe that the people that try to live the messages of Medjugorje should be commended in part for their prayers and penances that have averted annihilation by nuclear war. This was particularly evident in about the years 1982-1987. satan was enraged about that and stirred up hatred and dissension in Bosnia in the 1990's. I think if Catholics banded together in a unified way and prayed and fasted as she has advised us for forty years, the triumph of her immaculate heart would have already happened.